Working with Formica
#1
12-14-12, 09:58 AM
Working with Formica
Hi everyone, I need to resurface the wooden counter tops in the kitchen. I've been advised that Formica is the best to use for heat and water resistance.
I would appreciate any advise as to how to go about this. Particularly what tools I would need and any special techniques I need to know to make the job a bit easier.
I've been advised to cut the Formica larger than the size required and then smooth off the edging. Is this correct. If so, how do I smooth the edging to look like a professional job?
Keep in mind my budget is restricted as far as buying expensive tools are concerned.
Many Thanks
I would appreciate any advise as to how to go about this. Particularly what tools I would need and any special techniques I need to know to make the job a bit easier.
I've been advised to cut the Formica larger than the size required and then smooth off the edging. Is this correct. If so, how do I smooth the edging to look like a professional job?
Keep in mind my budget is restricted as far as buying expensive tools are concerned.
Many Thanks
#2
12-14-12, 10:08 AM
Group Moderator
Welcome to the forums.
Normal tool for working the edges is a router but it can be done by hand with a file.
Adhesive to use is contact cement applied to both the counter and the laminate with dowels placed in between and removed from the center outward as you place the laminate - you only get one shot so you have to make sure you get everything lined up right before the two surfaces touch each other. Then a J-roller to ensure good contact between the two surfaces.
Normal tool for working the edges is a router but it can be done by hand with a file.
Adhesive to use is contact cement applied to both the counter and the laminate with dowels placed in between and removed from the center outward as you place the laminate - you only get one shot so you have to make sure you get everything lined up right before the two surfaces touch each other. Then a J-roller to ensure good contact between the two surfaces.
#3
12-14-12, 04:54 PM
Formica is NOT heat resistant. It is water resistant, but you will want to caulk the joint between the backsplash and counter top.
You need more than a file to flush the edges. A router is a must have in this instance. You can buy inexpensive trim routers which are designed for this type of work. They are small and accept 1/4" shank bits. You will need a flush trim bit. A bevel bit ( I think about 5 degrees) will make cleaning up the edges even nicer. But that can be done with a nice mill file if you want to save a few bucks.
A belt sander will also be handy for your project. This will be useful after you put the formica on the front edge of the counter. Even though you have used a flush trim bit in a router to remove the excess, it still isn't perfectly flush. A belt sander will make quick work of that tiny lip left behind. You can also do this with the file ( a lot of work) or a wood block with sandpaper.
You need more than a file to flush the edges. A router is a must have in this instance. You can buy inexpensive trim routers which are designed for this type of work. They are small and accept 1/4" shank bits. You will need a flush trim bit. A bevel bit ( I think about 5 degrees) will make cleaning up the edges even nicer. But that can be done with a nice mill file if you want to save a few bucks.
A belt sander will also be handy for your project. This will be useful after you put the formica on the front edge of the counter. Even though you have used a flush trim bit in a router to remove the excess, it still isn't perfectly flush. A belt sander will make quick work of that tiny lip left behind. You can also do this with the file ( a lot of work) or a wood block with sandpaper.
#4
12-14-12, 05:51 PM
Group Moderator
Ramosis,
I can't say that you provided enough information for us to give you decent advice regarding your project. The words "wooden counters" has me concerned, since laminates (like formica) need a perfectly flat surface, and generally they must have clean, square edges in order to trim the laminate with a pilot bearing on the router or laminate trimmer.
Perhaps you could provide more details regarding your existing counters, as well as backsplashes and edge details. Pics would be helpful.
I can't say that you provided enough information for us to give you decent advice regarding your project. The words "wooden counters" has me concerned, since laminates (like formica) need a perfectly flat surface, and generally they must have clean, square edges in order to trim the laminate with a pilot bearing on the router or laminate trimmer.
Perhaps you could provide more details regarding your existing counters, as well as backsplashes and edge details. Pics would be helpful.
#6
12-16-12, 06:38 AM
Formica
Thanks everyone for your input, it's greatly appreciated.
Just a couple of questions;
What diameter dowels should I use?
I'm a bit confused about the router. I thought it was used for cutting grooves in a flat surface!
I've attached a photo, hope it makes things clearer. The backsplash wall is covered in glazed ceamic tiles.
Regards
Just a couple of questions;
What diameter dowels should I use?
I'm a bit confused about the router. I thought it was used for cutting grooves in a flat surface!
I've attached a photo, hope it makes things clearer. The backsplash wall is covered in glazed ceamic tiles.
Regards
#7
12-16-12, 07:04 AM
Group Moderator
I don't think you photo took. 
The dowels are just to keep the laminate off the surface of the counter until your ready to put it down. With contact cement, once it touches together, it is stuck and will not come apart. You can use strips of wood as well.
The router is to trim off the excess. A trim router works well for this. Renting one in your case might be a better option.
Here is a good video to show you what is involved: How to Laminate a Countertop | Video | Kitchen Countertops | Kitchen | This Old House
The dowels are just to keep the laminate off the surface of the counter until your ready to put it down. With contact cement, once it touches together, it is stuck and will not come apart. You can use strips of wood as well.
The router is to trim off the excess. A trim router works well for this. Renting one in your case might be a better option.
Here is a good video to show you what is involved: How to Laminate a Countertop | Video | Kitchen Countertops | Kitchen | This Old House
#11
12-16-12, 08:06 AM
Super Moderator
We've been having problems with uploading pics directly from the computer and the techs are working on it.
Can you upload the pic to a photo sharing site such as Photobucket, then put the link to your url here or there will be a link on Photobucket to insert the pic directly here.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
Can you upload the pic to a photo sharing site such as Photobucket, then put the link to your url here or there will be a link on Photobucket to insert the pic directly here.
Sorry for the inconvenience.
#12
12-16-12, 08:17 AM
For cutting, you would use a carbide scoring tool with a straightedge. Run the score 2 or 3 times on the face side then flip it over and snap down with the score over a table edge. You can also use various types of electric saws but this is the safest and I think easiest way. Be aware that fresh cut or routed laminate is razor sharp and will cut you before you know it just by running your hand along it. The cut edge must be softened with sandpaper after routing.
#14
12-16-12, 04:23 PM
Hope the photo gets through this time
How To Put Pictures In Your Post
How To Include Pictures
One final tip: Smaller images will load better than larger ones. In fact, there's a limit above which an image will not be accepted.
Good lick with this - it's frustrating to everyone.
#15
12-16-12, 05:25 PM
Group Moderator
Go to your photobucket account at photobucket.com (where you hopefully sucessfully uploaded your photo to the web) and click on the URL link to copy the web address of your photo.
After you copy it, you can paste the link here.
After you copy it, you can paste the link here.
#16
12-17-12, 10:18 AM
#17
12-17-12, 11:39 AM
Super Moderator
OK, let's try again, lol! 
You need to logout first, then go to your page as a guest, then copy the url link.
Your link takes us to the main page.
You need to logout first, then go to your page as a guest, then copy the url link.Your link takes us to the main page.
#18
12-17-12, 04:15 PM
You are copying the URL in the top of the Photobucket page. You need to hover over your picture until you get a drop down, then hover over the "IMG" code and click it. It will say IMG copied. Then open a post and CTL V onto the post.
Last edited by chandler; 12-18-12 at 05:00 AM.
#19
12-18-12, 10:22 AM
#21
12-18-12, 03:32 PM
Nice pic! How strong is that wooden surface? Strong enough to support tile?
New MDF or some other smooooth surface will likely be needed for the Formica to work, as Mark noted.
New MDF or some other smooooth surface will likely be needed for the Formica to work, as Mark noted.
#22
12-19-12, 09:55 AM
The wood surface still has remnants (grey areas) of old ceramic tile cement. The surface is pretty smooth. I used an electric sander. However some of the cement is proving very difficult to get rid of. Do I need to get rid of it all or will the Formica hold as long as the surface is smooth?
Glad the pic finally made the light of day.
Glad the pic finally made the light of day.
#23
12-19-12, 11:45 AM
I've not worked with formica much but it needs to have a perfectly flat/smooth substrate to glue it to. I don't think it's so much an adhesion factor as it is where any irregularities under the formica , they will show thru the new formica.
#24
12-19-12, 02:59 PM
Group Moderator
If you are even questioning whether the surface is smooth enough, then it isn't. Get yourself a sheet of 1/2" particle board or mdf, and overlay the whole top and apply a new strip to all the edges. Countersink your screws so that no head "clicks" when you go over it with a putty knife (just like drywall screws need to be on drywall). You will then have a good surface for the contact adhesive and laminate.
Similar to the comment about using "dowels", some people take apart old mini blinds and lay them over the contact cement when it's dry.
Similar to the comment about using "dowels", some people take apart old mini blinds and lay them over the contact cement when it's dry.
#25
12-20-12, 12:59 PM
OK, I will look into the smooth aspect of the wood. Now I have a real challenge! If you take a close look at the photo you will see a small gap between the edge of the lower tile and the wood surface. In fact there is a groove cut into the wall there as well. My idea is to slip the Formica into this groove in order to get a neat tight fit against the two adjoining walls. Here is the problem. There is not enough space to insert any dowels or wooden strips between the Formica and the wooden surface. Furthermore as the fit is so tight I will need to manoeuvre the Formica into position. Is there any way I can do this before the adhesive sets?
#26
12-20-12, 03:01 PM
You won't maneuver Formica into place. Once it touches the glue it sticks. If you get it set straight on with both walls and pull out your spacers, the space between the formica and wall tile should be minimal and caulkable with silicone.
Brant, nice use for the blinds. And I have thrown thousands of them away
No more.
Brant, nice use for the blinds. And I have thrown thousands of them away
No more.
#28
12-21-12, 09:16 AM
Group Moderator
You don't want to start until the glue is dry.
Normal process is to start removing the spacers in the center of the work, you may need to start from the edge with the groove and move over from there. It's going to be tricky, so patience is a must.
Normal process is to start removing the spacers in the center of the work, you may need to start from the edge with the groove and move over from there. It's going to be tricky, so patience is a must.
#29
12-21-12, 09:52 AM
If you can remove that top or even pull the whole cabinet away from the wall, it will make your job much easier. If you are planning to use a router, you can't run all the way up to the walls with it in place. BTW, you would start this job by laminating the edges first starting with the edge on the right side then the front edge next to it, overlapping the side edge. Then I would go for the edge next to the other wall, finally the center. The outside angle will have to be finished off with a file and the inner angle will need to be filed to the correct angle to butt to the adjoining edge strip before gluing. It's important to make sure you get enough glue on the edges where the laminate overlaps each other. Not big globs but well covered. I usually put 2 coats on the wood where any narrow strips go. A small short nap roller works well and the fumes from the solvent based cement can get intense, you will need ventilation.
#30
12-22-12, 07:09 AM
Well it looks as though I have a real problem on my hands! First off I can't remove the cabinet nor the surface. There is no way I can stick the Formica accurately without at least 60 secs to allow for accurate fitting.
This cabinet is only used for the microwave and electric kettle, so it's not actually a working surface. So am I still stuck or what?
This cabinet is only used for the microwave and electric kettle, so it's not actually a working surface. So am I still stuck or what?
#31
12-22-12, 08:13 AM
Group Moderator
Did you watch the video I posted?
You only need to cut it so it fits tight on the back sides where it meets the wall, and that could be touched up with a little caulk. This can all be done dry, with no glue. Let the fronts overhang a little to be cut off with a trim router. For glue you need to use contact cement.
If the top is not perfectly smooth add a thin layer of MDF.
You only need to cut it so it fits tight on the back sides where it meets the wall, and that could be touched up with a little caulk. This can all be done dry, with no glue. Let the fronts overhang a little to be cut off with a trim router. For glue you need to use contact cement.
If the top is not perfectly smooth add a thin layer of MDF.
#32
12-24-12, 10:36 AM
Haven't had a chance to watch the video, having problems with my viewer. However I've decided to follow XSleeper's advice and fix a new surface to the counter top prior to fitting the Formica. This will only be done in the new year though.
So until then Merry Christmas all and have a Wonderful 2013.
So until then Merry Christmas all and have a Wonderful 2013.
#33
01-02-13, 12:02 PM
Formica
Hi Everyone, Well I'm all set to glue the formica down on to my counter top. One last quick question. What sort of spacing should I allow between the dowels?
#35
01-12-13, 02:03 AM
Formica
Well the Formica is securely glued and I think for a first timer I did quite a good job with all the help and advice I received.
My next question is filling in the gap along the wall. Should I use something like Tile Grouting/Crack Filler or Silicon Sealer? My concern is preventing and/or removing any excess or spillage from the Formica surface!
My next question is filling in the gap along the wall. Should I use something like Tile Grouting/Crack Filler or Silicon Sealer? My concern is preventing and/or removing any excess or spillage from the Formica surface!
#36
01-12-13, 05:45 AM
How big is the gap? Often regular acrylic latex caulk is used. With latex caulk, a damp rag/sponge can be used to clean off any excess caulk. Solvents work for butyl and silicone caulks.
#37
01-12-13, 06:03 AM
Group Moderator
In the tile section of any big box store they will have color matched latex caulk that goes with a variety of tile colors. They have sanded and non-sanded caulk to match either sanded or non-sanded grout. It usually works best to take some masking tape and tape a straight line on both the countertop and on the tile, leaving a nice consistent gap between the 2 pieces of tape that is approximately 5/16" wide.
Then you caulk, pushing the caulking back into the gap. Then come back and tool the caulking with a wet finger or wet sponge, removing any excess and smoothing the joint. You then remove the tape immediately, and hopefully you're done.
If you have any large edges left after you remove the tape, it will be because you didn't wipe the caulk down tight enough (to the edges of the tape) which leaves a ridge. You'd then tool it one more time with your wet finger or wet sponge to smooth that ridge down.
Then you caulk, pushing the caulking back into the gap. Then come back and tool the caulking with a wet finger or wet sponge, removing any excess and smoothing the joint. You then remove the tape immediately, and hopefully you're done.
If you have any large edges left after you remove the tape, it will be because you didn't wipe the caulk down tight enough (to the edges of the tape) which leaves a ridge. You'd then tool it one more time with your wet finger or wet sponge to smooth that ridge down.
#38
01-12-13, 09:41 AM
I would use silicone caulk. If a good color match is not available in caulk, I would use clear. You do not want any water getting beyond the formica. Silicone is going to give the best performance for this application.
