Hi, I'm in need of some help and McMaster-Carr (they make piano hinges and gas springs) doesn't "make products recommendations" or offer any sort of support in that way. So here I am cause you guys are quite helpful. Maybe I'll just post my email to McMaster-Carr and we can go from there...


There's a floor door to the basement that isn't hinged or on any sort of lift system, I've included pictures of this as it is now. When I install the hardwood flooring on top of the OSB I estimate the weight to be somewhere in the 100lbs range as the door is approximately 16.5sq.ft (2.8lbs/sqft for my red oak, 2.5lbs/sqft for my ply/OSB).


I want to use a spring or two so I can make the door lift with little more than one hand or even a finger. In the photo the door lifts up on the short (north) side and I'd like it to lift up on the long side (east).


I'm not really sure compressed or extended length matter compared to weight rating... since the door is 30" wide i probably would want something to fall halfway so extended length of 15" and compressed length of half of that?


I was thinking of using one of your piano hinges on the long edge but maybe you have a better idea?


Also if you could tell me a little more about what spring would be best would be appreciated.


Inner dimensions: 30"x68 1/4 (there's a lip around the edge for the door to rest on)
Outer floor/door dimensions: 32 7/8" x 71 1/4


Thanks!


Here are similar designs with the springs and piano hinges.

 

That doesn't look much different than the door to the crawl space at my former in-laws' lake place. It's hinged on the long side, as you intend, and there are no counterweights or springs or anything and it opens quite easily. Are you sure you need any assistance on this?

 

Assistance as in lift assistance or as in what and how to do it?

 

Sorry, lift assistance - I am thinking with the hinge moved to the long side, you may not actually need any assistance lifting the door.

 

I wouldn't need it with the hinge on the long side but it's something I want as the whole house is a mess and I'm storing a lot of things down in the basement and frequently go up and down with arms full of stuff. Also for other people that may be... smaller than I am. Plus cool factor.

 

I won't deny you on the cool factor, that's reason enough in my book

I don't have the savvy to help you on the mechanism but I would go with a couple strap hinges instead of a piano hinge.

 

Good luck with this project - it is a cool idea.

To help you get a start on finding the gas lift(s) you might use, you can browse the selection available from McMaster-Carr.

You might need to re-frame the opening to provide a surface for the lift to press against, as well as a secure support for traffic on the door when it's closed.

A piano hinge is one alternative, but I think I'd go with Soss hinges instead. They're strong, they're invisible (so your door can be too), and they're wide enough - if you buy the larger ones - to span across the flooring and the sub-flooring.

 

Gas shocks will be in the way lifting it as you have it. You won't be able to make the first or even the second step. I would hinge it on the long side away from the camera angle or on the short end opposite from the way you have it lifted presently. Links the others have given, and you have suggested to the hinges and lifts are good ones.

 

Soss hinge seems interesting and they look great, I think 3 or 4 of the 1" varieties, thanks for the idea. Chandler this is what i had in mind.

My question now is does it matter really what compressed and extended length I order on the gas spring? Also does anyone know about Dual Action gas springs? Such that it only takes a little force to lift it up and then it goes on it's own and vice versa when you want to close it. I want to make this as trick as possible.

 

Can't answer your question but I like your depiction, it does look cool.

 

Because Soss hinges are countersunk and multi-leaf, they support far more weight than a standard hinge does. I used 3 on each leaf of a pair of site-built doors that were 36"W X 78"T X 2" thick, solid wood, per leaf. Check with your local specialty hardware.

As for which gas lift(s) to choose, I would suggest that you confer with the suppliers, giving them the detailed dimensions and desired swing of the door.

 

I agree. You will need the width of the door and the weight of the door, as they may have to determine the proper length of a double action piston, and the arc of the door at midpoint. I like the idea and the new placement. It will be basically out of the way and as the others have said..."cool".

 

I have all that info, unfortunately the only manufacturer that wants to help me charges a $300 engineering fee for something that costs at most $50. SO, with that said, I've ordered the hardware and will be reporting back when it's done. Thanks for your help.

 

I wanted to update that I've finally started on this project as the hardwood is going into the kitchen and this door needs to be completed. All hardware is on hand. I'll post more along the way... Two 1/2" sheets of plywood, glued, like my DIY weights? I have no cauls or better way to do it... Tonight i cut the oak to go on top.

 

Nice. Appreciate the update and eager to see the finished product.

 

Allright ladies and gentlemen, the finished product minus the pull ring (anyone know where to get a sweet pull ring or something that you push down and it pops up with a hole?)

I was unable to flush mount the hinges, I don't think it's physically (as in physics won't allow it) possible so the hinges are raise 1/16" above floor level, not a big deal but not flush. I think it turned out pretty good and with the gas lift it's super easy to open.

One thing for the future is I think the gas strut is very strong so when it's closed it wants to open and might be wrenching on the door, going to 2x 50lbs cylinders instead of 1 110lbs cylinder would probably distribute the force more evenly.

Oh yeah! All kitchen flooring is done.

Thanks for all the comments/suggestions.

 

Yep, you got your cool factor

 

That really looks cool. Thanks for the update and the picture!

Would this work for you?

Flush Pulls, Solid Brass

There are also ones that latch, if you want that and can make the strike plate work:

HATCH LIFT HANDLE WITH CATCH

The Soss hinges wouldn't work for you?

 

The second link at sailboatstuff.com is perfect! Thank you!

I was already feeling the cost of the door getting out of control after buying a gallon of glue, two 4x8 sheets of plywood and the 3" oak trim, to add SOSS hinges wouldn't have been unreasonable but considering one was approximately 3x the price of all 3 of my door hinges i couldn't/didn't want to justify it, plus there will be a closet and a little bar right next to it so it's not a high traffic area. I'm pleased with the way it turned out.

 

Nicely done. How does it feel when you walk on top of it?

You should have been able to mount the hinges flush. It would have only been a problem if you wanted the door to swing 180 degrees, but you went less than 90.

 

Feels extremely solid and far better than the janky old hatch that was there before.

My buddy and I tried a few different hinge configurations on scrap wood and always seemed to run into a problem with the hinges and the top edge of the door hitting the top edge of the floor. Raising the hinge 1/16th above the surface solved those problems. We tried different mortise depths and hinge height but nothing seemed to work perfectly

 

Excellent results!

I agree that 2 weaker lifts would be better than 1 strong one. Right now when that door is closed that lift is pushing the door sideways trying to stretch the hinges so reducing that force by half would be a good thing.

 

Hello there...first time poster....long time head banging against wall in frustration...er.

So I've got the exact same situation in my house. Access to the crawlspace, couldn't move the location. It's prominently in the middle of a galley kitchen...so I'd like to do it right. Your (the original poster that is) solution is exactly what I want to do...to a T. If I could message you privately and get more details I'd appreciate it.

Oh...something I was thinking for my own project...for a cool factor that is....a hidden switch under the cabinet. The switch toggles an electrified magnet that holds the door in the closed position. Toggle the switch, and the door opens automatically. If the power is cut and you need access to the crawl...the electrified magnet is automatically disengaged.

I think that would be pretty nifty...but as to how to accomplish that...I'm really not sure. =)

At any rate...looks good...and please let me know if I could get some details from you.

Thanks
C.

 

Welcome to the forums!

To send another member a private message, just click on that member's name. To ask questions in the forum about a project you're doing, just start a new thread.

That helps keeps the replies targeted.

 

Great Job! This is exactly what I have been trying to do with my basement door also. Could the OP please provide details of product and part numbers?


Thanks!

Mike