Building my own custom closet cabinet
#1
Building my own custom closet cabinet
Hi,
I'm planning to build a custom closet. The closet is 70" wide, 102" tall with a 4 foot french doors opening off to the right. The cabinet is going to be 72" tall and I will hang it 12" off the ground (I want the floor space for shoes as the closet is located in the mud room). I wanted to use 3/4" Malemine shelving boards from Menards at first but I had concert about the strength of the joints (even with confirmat screws) and the weight of the materials. Then, I found some nice Maple plywood shelving boards from a local lumber store. It is 3/4" x 15 1/4" x 96" with edgeband. Here is my plan, any feedback is welcome...
This is a wall to wall closet, I will be able to attach the two end panels to the drywall on both sides. I plan to build column A and B as one unit, hang it up on the wall. Then, I will secure the left most 48" panel to the wall, and install the two 31" shelving boards using pegs. To add strength, I have 3 fixed shelves in column A and 2 more in column B. They will be secured using pocket hole screws. I will add a 1x3 cleat (using the same plywood) below each fixed shelves. Here is a view from the back...
Since each column is 18" wide, I should be able to find stud behind and screws the unit into the stud through the cleats. I'm thinking to use 1/4" x 1 1/4" wood dowels to screw the cleats to the vertical panels like so...
Should I use pocket hole screws instead of wood dowels? Since the cabinet will be hung, I'm worry it may not be strong enough once I hang all the heavy winter jackets on it. Any way I can add strength? BTW, I don't own a router or a table saw. But I have access to a Dewalt track saw and a 12" sliding miter saw.
For finishes, I plan to put a coat of Bullseye Seal Coat, 2 coat of GF Candlelite Gel Stains and 2 coats of Arm-R-Seal. Do I need the seal coat for Maple?
Thanks,
Keith
I'm planning to build a custom closet. The closet is 70" wide, 102" tall with a 4 foot french doors opening off to the right. The cabinet is going to be 72" tall and I will hang it 12" off the ground (I want the floor space for shoes as the closet is located in the mud room). I wanted to use 3/4" Malemine shelving boards from Menards at first but I had concert about the strength of the joints (even with confirmat screws) and the weight of the materials. Then, I found some nice Maple plywood shelving boards from a local lumber store. It is 3/4" x 15 1/4" x 96" with edgeband. Here is my plan, any feedback is welcome...
This is a wall to wall closet, I will be able to attach the two end panels to the drywall on both sides. I plan to build column A and B as one unit, hang it up on the wall. Then, I will secure the left most 48" panel to the wall, and install the two 31" shelving boards using pegs. To add strength, I have 3 fixed shelves in column A and 2 more in column B. They will be secured using pocket hole screws. I will add a 1x3 cleat (using the same plywood) below each fixed shelves. Here is a view from the back...
Since each column is 18" wide, I should be able to find stud behind and screws the unit into the stud through the cleats. I'm thinking to use 1/4" x 1 1/4" wood dowels to screw the cleats to the vertical panels like so...
Should I use pocket hole screws instead of wood dowels? Since the cabinet will be hung, I'm worry it may not be strong enough once I hang all the heavy winter jackets on it. Any way I can add strength? BTW, I don't own a router or a table saw. But I have access to a Dewalt track saw and a 12" sliding miter saw.
For finishes, I plan to put a coat of Bullseye Seal Coat, 2 coat of GF Candlelite Gel Stains and 2 coats of Arm-R-Seal. Do I need the seal coat for Maple?
Thanks,
Keith
#2
Group Moderator
The finish is the only part on which I'm qualified to comment but I do not have familiarity with Arm-R-Seal. My thought would be three coats of polyurethane (I prefer oil based poly) since maple does not accept stain very well.
#3
Personally, I would build all 3 units as separate individual cabinets. This would allow you to predrill, dowel, and glue everything together separately. (or pocket screw if you like. I'd probably staple it all together.) If you glue, be sure and wipe the excess glue off with clean water several times and then lightly sand, or your stain won't take. Where each unit meets another you would then have a double thickness of material that you could fasten a 1x2 face frame onto, which will cover your seam and raw plywood edges.
Same thing on the sides, but the 2nd layer of material will just be a few filler scraps along the front of the unit only, and they can be removed if needed, say if things get too tight for some reason. What that allows you to do is to have that 1x2 face frame on each side where that unit meets the wall, and those ends can then be scribed to match the wall perfectly that way.
Since you plan to hang it, I'd suggest you put at least 3 spreaders along the back side, top middle and bottom, so that you can screw it to each stud in 3 places.
You do not apply Bullseye Seal coat to the wood before you finish it, or your stain won't penetrate. I would suggest you use a wood conditioner just before you stain (like Varathane wood conditioner) instead of trying to cut the Seal coat 50:50 (if that's what you were planning to do). Varathane waterborne Polyurethane is a joy to use, dries quick and nice finish.
Same thing on the sides, but the 2nd layer of material will just be a few filler scraps along the front of the unit only, and they can be removed if needed, say if things get too tight for some reason. What that allows you to do is to have that 1x2 face frame on each side where that unit meets the wall, and those ends can then be scribed to match the wall perfectly that way.
Since you plan to hang it, I'd suggest you put at least 3 spreaders along the back side, top middle and bottom, so that you can screw it to each stud in 3 places.
You do not apply Bullseye Seal coat to the wood before you finish it, or your stain won't penetrate. I would suggest you use a wood conditioner just before you stain (like Varathane wood conditioner) instead of trying to cut the Seal coat 50:50 (if that's what you were planning to do). Varathane waterborne Polyurethane is a joy to use, dries quick and nice finish.
#4
Just a construction question....why the long tails on sections B & C? You could get by with sorter ones and won't have the flapping in the wind on section B. A short tail will help separate your hanging areas. Section C only needs enough wood to fasten itself to the wall.
#5
I'm gonna chime in and give a nod to XSleepers game plan. If you build A&B and try to add C, there is not room in the equation to all dowel or pegs as you are tight to each wall. Individual units will allow you to assemble all 3 sections and dress them out accordingly.
#6
Chandler,
Good catch! I want long tails on B & C so I can change the configuration once my kids get older. The lower half of B is low enough for my kids to hang their own jackets now. Once they get older, I would like to use that section as a shoe rack and upper half as hanging space. That's why I need a 72" panel on the left side of B. If I need even more hanging space, I can convert C to a double hanging cabinet if I use a 48" panels on the far left.
Czizzi & XSleepers,
Technically, the most important cabinet is B. The right panel of A and left panel of C can be attached to the wall on the side. So, they won't go anywhere. If I can build B very strong and safely secure it to the back wall, I think I will be fine. I try to avoid building a face frame as the shelving board I found has a nice Maple veneer edge on it. Actually, C is not a real column. I plan to screw the 48" panel to the side wall and let the two 31" shelving boards float using pegs.
I didn't think about the peg holes http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/wall.gif as they need to be 1/2" deep. On the panels that have peg holes on both side, I think I can just do two different offsets. Say, one side is 1" from the edge and the other side is 2" from the edge. I have a Kreg peg hole jig. I think it actually has two offset settings.
I do have concert about the dowel joints on the nailing cleats below the fixed shelves on A & B. Is it okay to use the same 3/4" plywood shelving board as the nailing cleat? To make sure I have enough space for the dowels on the common panel between A&B, I could make the cleat bigger, say 4" or even 5" tall instead of 3". Is dowel joints good for the nailing cleat or should I use pocket screws instead? Another option is to use 2.5" screws through the vertical panel to secure the nailing cleats on B first. Then, I will use pocket screws or dowels to secure the nailing cleats on A. What about double up the cleats by using two pieces of 3/4" plywood together? I would like to avoid building A & B separate if possible. If I build them separate, I will need to do face frame...
Good catch! I want long tails on B & C so I can change the configuration once my kids get older. The lower half of B is low enough for my kids to hang their own jackets now. Once they get older, I would like to use that section as a shoe rack and upper half as hanging space. That's why I need a 72" panel on the left side of B. If I need even more hanging space, I can convert C to a double hanging cabinet if I use a 48" panels on the far left.
Czizzi & XSleepers,
Technically, the most important cabinet is B. The right panel of A and left panel of C can be attached to the wall on the side. So, they won't go anywhere. If I can build B very strong and safely secure it to the back wall, I think I will be fine. I try to avoid building a face frame as the shelving board I found has a nice Maple veneer edge on it. Actually, C is not a real column. I plan to screw the 48" panel to the side wall and let the two 31" shelving boards float using pegs.
I didn't think about the peg holes http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/wall.gif as they need to be 1/2" deep. On the panels that have peg holes on both side, I think I can just do two different offsets. Say, one side is 1" from the edge and the other side is 2" from the edge. I have a Kreg peg hole jig. I think it actually has two offset settings.
I do have concert about the dowel joints on the nailing cleats below the fixed shelves on A & B. Is it okay to use the same 3/4" plywood shelving board as the nailing cleat? To make sure I have enough space for the dowels on the common panel between A&B, I could make the cleat bigger, say 4" or even 5" tall instead of 3". Is dowel joints good for the nailing cleat or should I use pocket screws instead? Another option is to use 2.5" screws through the vertical panel to secure the nailing cleats on B first. Then, I will use pocket screws or dowels to secure the nailing cleats on A. What about double up the cleats by using two pieces of 3/4" plywood together? I would like to avoid building A & B separate if possible. If I build them separate, I will need to do face frame...
#7
Forum Topic Moderator
I'd also rethink the use of stain on maple as it doesn't stain well. If I'm not mistaken most maple cabinets that are stained use a dye rather than a conventional wood stain - I don't know much about the dyes. It's never a great idea to apply multiple coats of stain because stains are formulatd to dry more by absorption than chemically.
I've probably used more thinned down sealer [wash coat] as a wood conditioner than the commercially prepared wood conditioners. I unusually thin it 50-60%
I've probably used more thinned down sealer [wash coat] as a wood conditioner than the commercially prepared wood conditioners. I unusually thin it 50-60%
#8
I want long tails on B & C so I can change the configuration once my kids get older.
#9
Consider span bracing between B left and B right at the bottom
Since you plan to hang it, I'd suggest you put at least 3 spreaders along the back side, top middle and bottom, so that you can screw it to each stud in 3 places.
maple does not accept stain very well
#10
Group Moderator
I think you're more likely to get the cherry color with maple by using tinted polyurethane than with stain.
#11
Forum Topic Moderator
Try the stain on some scrap maple and see how it goes. You might have to go with both stain and tinted poly to get the color you desire. Tinted polys can be difficult to apply!! Unless you intend to spray it, you'd be best off applying a clear poly first, sand and then apply the tinted poly. It's best to always apply a coat of clear poly over the tinted poly to protect the color from wear.
#12
Spreader, spanner = like the nailers you installed at the top. Anything to keep the leg rigid without having to resort to an angle brace at the bottom. The one on the wall presents no problem.
#14
I like the narrow shelving idea. Nothing worse than having to dig for a pair of jeans that you want that are on the bottom of a stack. Shorter stacks = less messed up clothes. I have a space probably 3' above the shelf in our hanging closet. Presently sweats, pj's, sweaters all pile up. I plan on doing the same thing and making several shelves to "slide" clothes in, maybe two deep.
#15
Why shelves only 7" apart? OK for gloves & hats, kind of small for out-of-season boots.
#16
Forum Topic Moderator
I can build the same system using plywood shelving for $250 + finishes.
#17
Does anyone have any suggestion for the size and joinery for the nailing cleats? Is 3/4" plywood 3" tall good enough? The more I think about it, the more I think I should make it at least 4" tall so I have enough space for the joinery on the common board between A & B. What's about sandwich two 3/4" plywood together at least for the top nailing cleat? What should I use to attach the cleat to the box frame? Dowels or pocket screws? Thank you!
#18
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3/4" ply (or 1x4 lumber depending on how your cuts shake out in the plywood sheet stock) should be plenty for the cleats.
The joinery to the verticals is definitely the tricky part. If I were doing this myself, I'd notch the verticals at both cleat locations and set the cleats into the notches with dowel joints in addition to that (since the back face is on the wall, you can just run the dowels through the cleats and into the verticals then flush-cut any protruding dowel). I'd also keep the upper shelf continuous across A-B and pocket-screw the mid-leg into the top-piece which is supported by the cleat or maybe use some kind of blocking to strengthen that joint, or else run 5/16-3/8" dowel joinery between the two upper shelves with through-holes in the mid-leg (this would be getting a bit fancy for fitment but could be done with care and the right kinds of jigs, but is probably the strongest option). I'd also recommend having only fixed shelves in section "B" to provide strength for the vertical panel for "C" since that one will be supporting a hanger-rod in addition to at least one moveable shelf (not sure what the benefit of the top on "C" being adjustable might be). Finally, I'd probably add a ledger or third cleat across the bottom of A-B, including notching of all three vertical legs and glued dowel-joints into the backs at that height also.
The joinery to the verticals is definitely the tricky part. If I were doing this myself, I'd notch the verticals at both cleat locations and set the cleats into the notches with dowel joints in addition to that (since the back face is on the wall, you can just run the dowels through the cleats and into the verticals then flush-cut any protruding dowel). I'd also keep the upper shelf continuous across A-B and pocket-screw the mid-leg into the top-piece which is supported by the cleat or maybe use some kind of blocking to strengthen that joint, or else run 5/16-3/8" dowel joinery between the two upper shelves with through-holes in the mid-leg (this would be getting a bit fancy for fitment but could be done with care and the right kinds of jigs, but is probably the strongest option). I'd also recommend having only fixed shelves in section "B" to provide strength for the vertical panel for "C" since that one will be supporting a hanger-rod in addition to at least one moveable shelf (not sure what the benefit of the top on "C" being adjustable might be). Finally, I'd probably add a ledger or third cleat across the bottom of A-B, including notching of all three vertical legs and glued dowel-joints into the backs at that height also.
#20
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I can never bring myself to really trust edge-glued joints on plywood for real strength (veneer/edge-banding is a different question). At least a biscuit or two would be nice, although that would complicate pocket screwing; doweling has the added benefit of ensuring alignment, although a pair of vise-type corner clamps would probably suffice for pocket screwing.
I know hardwood ply will be a lot better and have very few, if any voids, and I've always been prone to over-building nearly anything if given a chance. Pocket joints are definitely plenty strong for shoe-shelves, although arranging pocket screwing into the same member from both sides will take some planning to avoid crowding the screws together while still getting appropriate placement.
I know hardwood ply will be a lot better and have very few, if any voids, and I've always been prone to over-building nearly anything if given a chance. Pocket joints are definitely plenty strong for shoe-shelves, although arranging pocket screwing into the same member from both sides will take some planning to avoid crowding the screws together while still getting appropriate placement.
#22
Thank you everyone for your advise. I've changed my design a little bit. I will put a bottom on B and use the lower half of A & B as shoe shelves. The upper half of A & B will be a combination of baskets and shelves for bags and backpacks. C will become a double hanging space. I've found nice 3/4" pre-finished Maple plywood for $80 a sheet at a lumber store. I will use that instead of the pre-cut shelving boards. They even sell matching pre-finished edge for $0.40 a foot. It may be tricky to apply without melting the finishes. It's not the color I want but it's a time saver. A friend has a biscuit joiner I can borrow. I think I will give it a try. I will use glue but may need to sand off the finishes on the plywood before applying wood glue. I will give a test on gorilla glue as well to see if it sticks to the finishes. Actually, a local big box store called Menards sells 3/4" pre-finished birch for $40 a sheet but I'm not sure the quality. I will go get the materials early next week and start working on it.
#23
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Wood glue works best with raw wood. Not sure what you will be gluing that is finished but you can sand/scrape the finish off where you need to apply the glue.
Is it the iron tape?
They even sell matching pre-finished edge for $0.40 a foot. It may be tricky to apply without melting the finishes
#24
Is it the iron tape?
#25
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Be careful with Gorilla glue (or any other polyurethane glue) as it will foam up and out of the joints as it cures. Definitely use wood glue on any biscuit joinery since that'll be good clean wood bonding together.