New kitchen island, cabinet-maker forgot the outlet. What is best option?
#1
New kitchen island, cabinet-maker forgot the outlet. What is best option?
Island is all drawers, and I love it, but was a bit disappointed that he forgot to place the outlet. He offered to come back and do it (although he made a comment that he did not include that in the original price, even though I have our emails to prove otherwise) so before I ask him to come back, I wanted some input on where the best placement would be. We had discussed placing it on the side, or the back.
I had thought having it on the back would not be the best, since that is a the main passage area and I guess I am thinking someone could possibly "snag" a cord there. Also, of course, the back it would be more visible, and perhaps "spoil" the look, but honestly I am not as concerned about that aspect. So the end seemed the best place for it, to me, but this is a frameless cabinet, and there is no room beside the drawers. The only way to get the outlet on the side would be to notch out the back/side of the middle drawer, and my BF thinks that would be a crime. Drawers are maple, very nice. The quartz top is not on yet of course, and there will be very little overhang, only about a 3/4" lip. So even a plugmold strip is out since they are too wide.
What do you think - where would you put the outlet if this was in your kitchen?
I had thought having it on the back would not be the best, since that is a the main passage area and I guess I am thinking someone could possibly "snag" a cord there. Also, of course, the back it would be more visible, and perhaps "spoil" the look, but honestly I am not as concerned about that aspect. So the end seemed the best place for it, to me, but this is a frameless cabinet, and there is no room beside the drawers. The only way to get the outlet on the side would be to notch out the back/side of the middle drawer, and my BF thinks that would be a crime. Drawers are maple, very nice. The quartz top is not on yet of course, and there will be very little overhang, only about a 3/4" lip. So even a plugmold strip is out since they are too wide.
What do you think - where would you put the outlet if this was in your kitchen?
#2
I don't know what the builder was thinking, the receptacle should go on the side, preferably both sides. I would place the box as far towards the back as possible and notch the drawer.
The receptacle can go sideways if you don't mind that look (less notching). The receptacle should be a tamper resistant GFCI.
Also the middle drawer does not need to be that high to hold pots and pans, the entire drawer box height could be shortened if you prefer that look. All of my roll outs are only about 4" tall and serve me well.
I would not recommend a receptacle on the back for the reasons you mentioned, snag hazard. It's OK on the back if it's down low and not intended for counter use.
The receptacle can go sideways if you don't mind that look (less notching). The receptacle should be a tamper resistant GFCI.
Also the middle drawer does not need to be that high to hold pots and pans, the entire drawer box height could be shortened if you prefer that look. All of my roll outs are only about 4" tall and serve me well.
I would not recommend a receptacle on the back for the reasons you mentioned, snag hazard. It's OK on the back if it's down low and not intended for counter use.
#3
Rather than notching the top drawers, I would have the depth shortened by 6". Should be easy for any carpenter to do. You would need new glides (also 6" shorter) for the shortened boxes. I agree 2 outlets would be best, one left one right, placed 6" or so below the top of the counter and behind the shortened drawers.
Don't let him buffalo you into thinking he didn't know outlets were needed there. It's code to have them there.
Don't let him buffalo you into thinking he didn't know outlets were needed there. It's code to have them there.
#4
Handyone, I don't know what he was thinking either. He is a pretty accomplished cabinet maker - all I can figure is this was a small job he was trying to "fit in" before Christmas, and he just ran out of time - although I had no deadline at all and I told him that. I never seem to have a project go completely right - sometimes I think I have a sign on my back. *sigh*
Didn't even think about shortening the height of the entire drawer box - good point. I don't like the very short sides, but don't think they need to be this deep either. I'm fine with sideways too, good idea - thanks.
I will be calling an electrician to wire it in the next couple of weeks, and will call the cabinet guy after that. You think 2 outlets? Maybe I should go ahead to do that. Island is 57 x 27 with top on.
Didn't even think about shortening the height of the entire drawer box - good point. I don't like the very short sides, but don't think they need to be this deep either. I'm fine with sideways too, good idea - thanks.
I will be calling an electrician to wire it in the next couple of weeks, and will call the cabinet guy after that. You think 2 outlets? Maybe I should go ahead to do that. Island is 57 x 27 with top on.
#5
XSleeper - 6" shorter?? You mean, from the back?? No I would definitely not want to give up that much space in that drawer, but thanks for the idea. I think I'll pick up a box ("single gang" I think they are called?) at HD and see what kind of room will be needed before I decide. It might be that I can put it in the top, but I was thinking the 2nd drawer would be less of an impact since it's a deep drawer.
And yeah I know it's code...I don't know what he was thinking. Crazy.
Wish I could find some examples of notching drawers for something like this. I've googled it but not much online.
And yeah I know it's code...I don't know what he was thinking. Crazy.
Wish I could find some examples of notching drawers for something like this. I've googled it but not much online.
Last edited by yardnut; 01-04-18 at 04:49 PM.
#6
Drawer glides are available in 3" increments... if you were going to shorten the drawer box depth, that would be the bare minimum... but imo it will look odd if the outlet and plate cover is crowding the outside corner. Plus you have the outside cabinet trim to consider when thinking about the placement. It can't be half on, half off the trim.
Many appliance cords are only 2 ft long, so keep that in mind if thinking about putting the outlet lower.
Many appliance cords are only 2 ft long, so keep that in mind if thinking about putting the outlet lower.
#7
Took a few more shots with a tape. Notching the 2nd drawer seems like the best place - just more room to work with there.
XSleeper, no worries on that - I don't plan on putting the outlet lower. Actually I think the code states they must be within 12" of the top, anyway.
XSleeper, no worries on that - I don't plan on putting the outlet lower. Actually I think the code states they must be within 12" of the top, anyway.
#8
I think notching the back of the middle drawer is your best bet. The notch will rarely be seen and clean cuts can be made if the correct tools are used.
You can use slim GFCI's and a shallow box:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-03W/205996750
Obviously the carpenter needs to make all the cut outs and protect the cabinet finish.
You can use slim GFCI's and a shallow box:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-...-03W/205996750
Obviously the carpenter needs to make all the cut outs and protect the cabinet finish.
#10
I'd rather have a separate circuit. Just seems like there are too many things sharing a circuit already, although the only one that is a problem is the microwave. I might have the electrician fix that as well, when I get him out here.
#11
You definitely want the microwave on a dedicated circuit, whether built in or over the range.
You might also want to run a dedicated circuit for the range if it is convection with a warming drawer, I had to do that after the fact.
There are heating elements in the fan and the warming drawer if this applies to you, it looks like you have a high quality range and they use more power.
You might also want to run a dedicated circuit for the range if it is convection with a warming drawer, I had to do that after the fact.
There are heating elements in the fan and the warming drawer if this applies to you, it looks like you have a high quality range and they use more power.
#12
You should have 2 separate circuits that supply the kitchen countertop outlets.... half on one, half on the other. That's also in the electrical code.
#13
If you are looking for the absolute shallowest way to go you can use semi shallow boxes with standard tamper proof receptacles and a GFI breaker. This is best wired with a single cable to each receptacle and spliced in a box in the basement.
#14
In all my years of doing electrical work, a cabinet maker has NEVER made an area for a receptacle go on the cabinet. I always end up cutting one in someplace.
Normally I will use a Steel box as the are typically smaller (2"x3"x2 1/2" deep) like this: https://www.cesco.com/Thomas---Betts...2-in-/p2128119
Note: The counter top will likely sit on top of the cabinets and not hang over. You could also add some strips if the counter top does drop over.
hfhfh
Just to be clear, it is not required to split wire receptacles with two circuits, nor is it required to evenly split the circuits between the available receptacles. Code says that you need to have a minimum of 2 - 20 amp circuits serving the counter top receptacles. How they are split up is up to the installer. Of course, it is a good idea to try to split the loads as best as you can.
Normally I will use a Steel box as the are typically smaller (2"x3"x2 1/2" deep) like this: https://www.cesco.com/Thomas---Betts...2-in-/p2128119
Note: The counter top will likely sit on top of the cabinets and not hang over. You could also add some strips if the counter top does drop over.
You should have 2 separate circuits that supply the kitchen countertop outlets.... half on one, half on the other
Just to be clear, it is not required to split wire receptacles with two circuits, nor is it required to evenly split the circuits between the available receptacles. Code says that you need to have a minimum of 2 - 20 amp circuits serving the counter top receptacles. How they are split up is up to the installer. Of course, it is a good idea to try to split the loads as best as you can.
#15
1) I have a dedicated circuit for the range so not an issue.
2) The MW has always been on a shared circuit - house was built that way (unless the previous homeowner changed it and I seriously doubt that!) and it has always been a pain in the butt. I don't understand why they ever did that in the first place. Yeah I will have it corrected.
3) I do have 2 circuits that supply the counter top outlets. The MW is on one of them. The fridge is on the other. The rest of the outlets are split about evenly. Actually might be a 3rd one there for the dishwasher and disposal, but I can't remember. I'll look at it tonight.
Not necessarily looking for the shallowest box, at least not on both outlets - I want one outlet to have USB ports, and I know that those are a bit thicker - at least the ones I have used already are. I have a shallow box at the end of a peninsula cabinet, and the usb outlet would not fit there. And yeah my counter overhang will be very very small - less than an inch, so no strips.
In all my years of doing electrical work, a cabinet maker has NEVER made an area for a receptacle go on the cabinet. I always end up cutting one in someplace.
Perhaps not, but this was a custom-made island, and the outlet was part of the specs that I gave him, and what he quoted. He specifically discussed the possible locations, so I expected them. And in this particular situation, the island drawers must be notched/finished to fit those outlets in. Would that also be typical for you to do? I mean, that is cabinetry work, I would think. But maybe electricians are more versatile than I give them credit for.
2) The MW has always been on a shared circuit - house was built that way (unless the previous homeowner changed it and I seriously doubt that!) and it has always been a pain in the butt. I don't understand why they ever did that in the first place. Yeah I will have it corrected.
3) I do have 2 circuits that supply the counter top outlets. The MW is on one of them. The fridge is on the other. The rest of the outlets are split about evenly. Actually might be a 3rd one there for the dishwasher and disposal, but I can't remember. I'll look at it tonight.
Not necessarily looking for the shallowest box, at least not on both outlets - I want one outlet to have USB ports, and I know that those are a bit thicker - at least the ones I have used already are. I have a shallow box at the end of a peninsula cabinet, and the usb outlet would not fit there. And yeah my counter overhang will be very very small - less than an inch, so no strips.
In all my years of doing electrical work, a cabinet maker has NEVER made an area for a receptacle go on the cabinet. I always end up cutting one in someplace.
Perhaps not, but this was a custom-made island, and the outlet was part of the specs that I gave him, and what he quoted. He specifically discussed the possible locations, so I expected them. And in this particular situation, the island drawers must be notched/finished to fit those outlets in. Would that also be typical for you to do? I mean, that is cabinetry work, I would think. But maybe electricians are more versatile than I give them credit for.
#16
Member
Factory cabinet drawers do not extend as deeply into the cabinet as your custom cabinet. I have an island built from two factory base cabinets. I was able to add a receptacle box on the side of one of the base cabinets. The box fits behind the drawer.
#17
It is hard to tell from the pictures what options are available, but I would try to install some white wiremold strip on one (or both) of the sides if there is not room on the front of the island between the drawer fronts and the counter top.
ahoqawi
I understand that. Just another example of a cabinet maker not thinking about the next guy and the code requirements. It is easy to forget, that code has only been around for 25 years.
Perhaps not, but this was a custom-made island, and the outlet was part of the specs that I gave him, and what he quoted.
ahoqawi
I understand that. Just another example of a cabinet maker not thinking about the next guy and the code requirements. It is easy to forget, that code has only been around for 25 years.
#19
Tolyn Ironhand , there is no room for wiremold strips - not enough overhang. Drawers will definitely need to be notched. These are frameless cabinets so we knew that - it was discussed. Oh well. It will get done.
Thanks for the advice, folks.
Thanks for the advice, folks.