DSL wiring

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  #1  
Old 10-02-02, 10:35 AM
xiii13
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DSL wiring

I've got an older home that has the old red, green, yellow, black wire running to all the phones. The phone company has a real good deal on DSL service, so I ordered it. SBC came out and the tech said he couldn't do it because of the wiring. He told me I had to upgrade to the newer twisted pair multocolored wiring in order to get DSL. OK I admit I know nothing about this "DSL" thing but am skeptical about what he told me. Am I right or wrong? Is he right or wrong?
 
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Old 10-02-02, 11:07 AM
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I am skeptical with you. I had DSL in my 100 year old home with the red, green, yellow and black wiring. If it is a wiring issue I think it has to do with wiring outside your house not inside.

It kind of sounds like a bait and switch tactic -

offer a special and then insist on a 'necessary' upgrade. I would make some more calls if I were you.
 
  #3  
Old 10-02-02, 12:13 PM
xiii13
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He told me it was the inside wiring from the box to all phones. The outside wiring from the pole to the box is fine---according to him. They upgraded the whole area about five years ago and ran underground wiring to all the houses, so it is fairly new.
 
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Old 10-02-02, 12:42 PM
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when i had dsl, the wiring setup you mentioned was exactly what i had. no problems.

i would call the tech department and ask them why it won't work, and why you need to upgrade when it seems that everyone else in the country can seem to run off the non-used pair. The only time you use two pairs is if you have a second phone line with a separate telephone number assigned to it.

i had to use filters on my telephones after the dsl install, but that was the only "upgrade" i needed, and they supplied the filters for all my phones.

kay
 
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Old 10-02-02, 01:44 PM
xiii13
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OK, just got off the phone with SBC. Here's what they told me. The older 4 wire cable does not supply enough "bandwidth" to work properly. It is possible to use the old 4 wire setup but the "cross Talk" will be "excessive". If you are using your computer with the DSL and someone else in the home is using the phone at the same time, there will be to much "noise" on the line.

OK, are they legit or are they giving me BS?
 
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Old 10-02-02, 04:54 PM
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BS. You will not be using all four pair for the dsl "data", only two. The other two will be for the telephones "voice". If they hook the yellow/black pair up for the dsl and the red/green pair is for the phone lines, then the only way you will have noise on line will be on the telephone end IF you don't use filters, or unhook the dsl used pair from each phone jack. This is all the filters do, remove access of the telephone from the dsl pair.

They seem to want the money, too lazy to explain this, too cheap to give you filters (mine supplied 4 - which are used only on the telephones, not the dsl modem connection).

As soon as Phonetek replies to this, he can explain it in a way that you can possibly argue your case to the phone company.

Kay

Try this link on how dsl works:
http://www.howstuffworks.com/dsl.htm

K.
 

Last edited by kaybyrd; 10-02-02 at 05:10 PM.
  #7  
Old 10-02-02, 11:09 PM
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Okay, first things first. Yes, it may be true that your wiring may allow "crosstalk" but don't get excited just yet, let me explain first. I don't know if I would define it as "crosstalk" though. What they mean to say is you may hear a bleed over of data on the voice and also you voice (especially ringing) may disrupt your data.
To be honest I don't see how the tech came to the conclusion that you inside wiring wasn't going to work without actually hooking it up and trying it first. It's a pretty big assumption to just look at it and say "Yep, It's bad"
Would "Twisted Pair" cable actually solve the problem if the bleed over was a problem with your current wiring? Yes, it would.
I would at least try it with the old wiring first and if it became a problem I would change it.
I guess the biggest problem I have with the whole thing is.... they are offering you a service right? Isn't installation part of the package they offer either free or for a charge? See, all I know is that when the company I work for offers a customer something and for some reason we cannot get it to work with the customers current wiring (which does happen) we do whatever we have to do to make it work. Once it works I don't whip out a bill to the customer for doing it. Also, all the guy really would have to do is run ONE cable to ONE phone jack near your computer to use the DSL. That's assuming that your aren't networking your entire house to where you can even be sitting in the bathroom surfing the net. It would be a home run straight from the network interface right to a single jack near your computer. Depending on your house it could take 10 minutes to do to a couple of hours.
As far as what you can say to the phone company is not a whole lot in this case. First you can demand that they try hooking it up to the existing wiring before they assume it's not going to work and prove it is bad. Make sure YOU hear the bleedover not just go by what the tech says. If you do have the bleedover make sure you ask if wiring one telephone jack would be included in the installation. (it should be but may not be) You can also ask about the filters and try them before running the new cable. If all else fails start crying and guilt the tech into doing it for you. You could also say the words "Side Job" and maybe he will do it. I know plenty of techies that will and some will even work for beer. =) The other thing you could do if your wiring is truly bad is install it yourself. It will be cheaper and I could certainly explain it to you on how to do it. Other than that I cannot see many other options but before doing anything else, once again make them PROVE to you that it will not work with your current wiring. I hope this helps and it works out for you. Please let us know how it works out!
 
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Old 10-03-02, 04:53 AM
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DSL

I am not a DSL expert, but from what I know, the jack to your computer needs to be a homerun jack. In other words, this jack needs to go directly from the jack to the protector, it can't have any other jacks connected to it (daisychained) DSL using only one pair of wires, not two as previously mentioned. The filters required are to filter out the DSL signal on your other jacks, otherwise you get terrible white noise. The package you received from the phone company should have included filters, or they should atleast be available. There is nothing wrong with using the "old" red/green/yellow/black wiring.
 
  #9  
Old 10-03-02, 05:55 AM
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Ah... your DSL line should most certainly have two pair run to it - some phone companies run the DSL on the second pair and some DSL modems expect it to be on the second pair (DSL installers usually provide a jack to swap the line pairs for this case).

Home-run is best, but certainly not necessary. The filter is necessary.

I agree with everyone else though - there's no reason standard wiring won't work (works in my house). Either there's something else up or SBC is BSing about the real issue.

I also recommend checking out www.dslreports.com -- they may have more info for you on SBC in particular, or give you a list of alternate ISPs to use for DSL.
 
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Old 10-03-02, 06:28 PM
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I have a question about it being a home run. Couldn't you stick either a hub, router or RJ-45 junction panel before it hits the computer and branch out from there? I mean, what if you wanted to use the DSL on more than one computer??
 
  #11  
Old 10-03-02, 08:49 PM
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Phonetek - by "home-run" it means that the DSL line should have as few splits as possible from the demarcation point. Preferably only one. Also don't daisy chain the outlets (as girlbuilder says). This is the phone line/RJ-11 side of the world.

On the ethernet side, you can do whatever you want to - run the ethernet to one computer or run it to a switch, a hub, a router, etc.

As a further clarification - home-run is usually used to indicate that all wiring is run from end point (the jack) to a home point (the network center/block/splitter/etc). It's also known as a star topology in networking.

See http://www.dslreports.com/faq/3325 if you want a picture that shows it.

And in case you thought you were clear on it now, some people refer to a home-run as going direct to the demarcation point, as opposed to a single line going from the demarc to an interior location and all the wiring converging on that location.

Are we having fun yet?
 
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Old 10-04-02, 06:14 AM
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I'm havin' fun!

I love this! You guys are so good to explain things and how they work.

Thank you so much. There was a time, many years ago, where I was afraid to hang pictures on a wall since I didn't know what was in those walls. My 1st husband and I built a home and that solved that problem since I actually got to see how things were run in those walls. I feel safer inside the walls of a house now since I understand better how they are put together.

I appreciate the fact that I don't have to wire a home for a telephone to have a better understanding today, and if I ever did I would be armed with the knowledge that you guys have given us here. It will help plan for future things, too. Adding jacks or cat5, just in case I decide to go further with networking computers, etc. Also how to approach it with keeping in mind that there may be problems so how to wire it so that maintenance would be easier, too. Will save money, and heartaches down the line.

I truly appreciate you guys helping me to understand how things around me, especially in my own home, work.

Kay
 
  #13  
Old 10-07-02, 04:27 PM
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Well, mines different than that...
My DSL comes into the apartment on the same wires as the regular phone. Theres a filter at each phone to keep the DSL stuff from messing with the phone and vice-versa. I have about 50 feet of plain old four conductor cable from the wall to the computer (no jack in the computer room, and I'm not adding it). We get 640k down and 256k up, as advertised. I have not tried to prove it, but I beleive that everything is on the same two wires.
 
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Old 10-08-02, 12:33 PM
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There two types of DSL... and as far as I know SBC only does ADSL, which means it comes on the same wire as the regular phone, and uses filters on all of the jacks on the house. I've never had any problems with that setup yet, although I've never seen daisy-chained phone jacks.
 
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Old 10-08-02, 08:47 PM
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Chicago must be speacial. all your phones have their own line running to the nid (little (grey) box on side of home)? The only time I see more then one line going to the nid is when I put it there. Anywho..... As PT stated in another post there are several "types" of DSL (ADSL, SDSL, XDSL, etc...) But to make things simple most Bell companies (or whats left of em) tend to use only ADSL for residential customers. And range from 1.5M to 256k downstream and (don't realy know for upstream) 56k-256k? Memory is a little fuzzy and want to say that the FCC tarrif is 256k max upstream (could be wrong)

Standard "run-of-the-mill" ADSL uses the same pair as your phone. Its the only way they can get away with self installs. I mean how hard is it to unpack a modem, plug in the filters, plug in the modem and connect to the phone line? DSL subcription would be way down if everyone (everyone) had to pay for a profesional install. It only makes sense for the PhCo to offer as many self installs as possible, more customers, more money.

Central location is pretty easy to setup. Alot of ppl I know run a phone line to a closet connect the "ethernet" (should be) connect dsl router to modem and then run cat5 from the closet to other rooms. You can run up to 100 meters of cat5 from a hub/router to pc. (standard practice is 90M in the wall leaving 5M for patch on each end.)

Most home-runs that I deal with are only run when the adsl line DOES NOT use the same pair(s) as the phone line. Still adsl, just a hybrid.

DSL is able to run on the same pair as your phone because its transmitted at a diff freq. (dont ask me to give you the freq range right now, forgot it and don't have enough time to look it up before I go home. If I get a chance on thurs will dig out my homework and check.)

thought I had more, but its no longer there. oh well,

Night all.

Brian
 
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Old 10-11-02, 04:20 PM
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Cool Worst case, Telephone Company Stupido!

Is your Telephone Co really that stupid? In that case don't go with them, look at Cable Modem, or another ADSL provider. Like Earthlink etc.

I started with Bell South on the old 4 wire. Because a friend gave me 50 yards of CAT5, and got some good help on DIY I ran CAT 5 to everything.

I do get crosstalk about this time every year though. I think it is coming from inside my PC. I hear it faintly say: it's almost your birthday, I want a new MOBO & CPU . Just kidding but not about the Boneheads, stay away from them, like the plauge. They know not what they DO!

Just like all the great answers you got here, you have other choices for High Speed Access. Call around it can't hurt.

Marturo
 
  #17  
Old 10-28-02, 01:19 PM
errodri61
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go to this page, it will explain about the diferent type of wires....

http://searchnetworking.techtarget.c...211752,00.html
 
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Old 12-03-08, 03:55 PM
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my dad works for att and he told me the same thing but said that it is my land lords issue. he said that the old wiring will slow down the connection and now that it is up and running he is right. my old dls would reach download speeds of 200+ and now i am hitting only 60-70.
 
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Old 12-08-08, 02:57 PM
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Dsl should work okay on the type of wiring that is being described. That sounds like a category two or three wire and it should be fine. Data rates might be affected slightly because of the wire type but you should still have DSL SYNC and decent data rates. There won't be any audible noise long as the filters are used.

A technician with a test set will have higher than normal noise tests because of the type of wiring but it would take a test set or another specific type of noise test to tell this, you won't be able to. The excess noise will cause the diminished data rate but it should only be slight.

In my area I install ADSL daily on all types of wiring including wire that is so old it uses cloth as it's outer jacket and it has worked. I would tell SBC to install it, it will work on what you have.
 
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Old 01-06-09, 10:55 PM
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Phonetek got it right when he said the tech could never have known that the DSL would not work without trying it first.

I have been installing and repairing DSL for the last 5 years and NEVER judge an install without trying it first.

If the tech said he had good sync rates at the side of the house, but your "bad" wiring would cause it to not work. What did he base this on? If the CO/Telephone Exchange was within 10000' of the house and the run from the side of the house to the jack where the modem was to be installed is less than, 200' it will work.

What package of DSL was ordered will play into whether it will be stable or not. Plans start from 256k then 1.5meg, 3meg and 6meg. dsl2+ can supply 25 meg but that rate drops very fast based on distance.

Hope this helped.

Mike
 
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Old 01-10-09, 05:21 PM
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If I remember right voice is up to about 4 khz and DSL is around 7 or 8 khz.
 

Last edited by Rick Johnston; 01-11-09 at 02:48 AM. Reason: Remove quoted material from 2002 (above)
  #22  
Old 01-11-09, 02:51 AM
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Welcome to the forums!

Actually, DSL is quite a bit higher than that. It's bandwidth is roughly 26 kiloHertz to 1 megahertz.
 
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Old 01-11-09, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Johnston View Post
Welcome to the forums!

Actually, DSL is quite a bit higher than that. It's bandwidth is roughly 26 kiloHertz to 1 megahertz.
You're right. Subscriber carrier is at 7-8khz.
 
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Old 11-15-10, 04:47 PM
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DSL wiring install

It is true about the crosstalk, I have a old house and have DSL...when I am online and some starts using the phone my DSL gets disconnected.
 
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Old 12-03-10, 08:14 PM
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Goforit I would check the filters,one could have gone bad, or one or more is missing
 
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Old 12-10-10, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by goforit View Post
It is true about the crosstalk, I have a old house and have DSL...when I am online and some starts using the phone my DSL gets disconnected.
Use a filter or check your phone wirings for some possible short circuits. You can check that by picking your phone and listen if there are no interference or noise (of course you need to disconnect your DSL before doing this).
 
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