cable network providers

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  #1  
Old 11-19-03, 01:35 PM
josh1
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cable network providers

think comcast etc. big cable networks.

bear with me,

is it possible for a standard cable modem to connect to a network outside of your cable provider? say I have citizens cable, can I have a cable modem connected to the citizens cable coax line, connect to a 3rd party network and upload/ download files over the citizens cable signal without having citizens internet over cable?

any special equipment necessary to do this? I read about new splitters needed. would It work or would it be necessary for cable service provider to allow this sort of 3rd party network formation over their lines?

im not knowledgable about how cable providers systems work so any detail is great. Just have an idea but not sure its do-able. im also no network expert but basically Im thinking like this,

my 56k modem can dial any number, and assuming the answer is a private network that will establish a connection, i can form a data connection, to upload/download files from the private network, without having/using an ISP, just the physical phone line, I want to do the same deal with cable. Unfortunately I dont yet have cable modem so not familiar with them so much.

Thanks for help-Josh
 
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  #2  
Old 11-19-03, 01:58 PM
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is it possible for a standard cable modem to connect to a network outside of your cable provider
That would be anything reachable through the internet. When you connect to anything on the internet, you are always connected to another system.

citizens cable signal without having citizens internet over cable?
You would need a connection to the internet, so you would have to have some service on the line. Without citizen providing the connection to the internet, you have just some wire.

Without an ISP, you would not have a connection to the internet. ISP = internet service provider.

A telephone modem can connect to any telephone system that will answer a telephone call. But it cannot do this without a telephone service provider. Or course, you can connect straight to another computer's modem by running the appropriate cable to the modem port on both computers.

The telephone and internet give you the transport medium that enables the connections to occur.

3rd party network formation
Do you mean a VPN, SSH? Even so, not without the underlying service to establish the connection and path in the first place. You cannot tunnel through something that does not exist.

Let us know if your message has been misinterpreted.

Hope this helps.
 
  #3  
Old 11-19-03, 07:49 PM
josh1
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"You would need a connection to the internet, so you would have to have some service on the line. Without citizen providing the connection to the internet, you have just some wire."

yes but can I use that wire to build my own WAN or VPN (im not familiar with different networks really).

I understand the tele modem is dialing across telephone service, but coax cable is service? or is the standard cable service (as opposed to internet cable) not capable of transmitting things both ways?

I think a virtual private network is what im looking for.

If i have a cable modem attatched to the coax cable in my house, and the cable modem is controlled by something like an elementary processor and power supply, and I have some sort of "supply side" network somewhere else, I want the remote house modem to be able to "dial in" over the standard coax cable? Possible? Or is the coax wire just a useless wire unless it has internet service from the cable company? If so, Can I make my own internet service to specific modems across the cable companies cable lines or must it originate with the cable co?

Then a connection would be established between my network and the remote modem. It needs to be capable of sending/receiving large volume data. Basically Im trying to directly connect to that remote modem? I (think) am my own ISP, but I dont want Internet access, just a two way data transfer between my network and the remote modem, that the remote modem is capable of initiating and terminating across the coax cable.


Can this be done ( I know im terrible at explaining)?


Thanks!-Josh
 
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Old 11-19-03, 08:48 PM
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Ah, I understand now - like you say, you basically want to setup your own Cable WAN.

Sure, it's possible - but there are 2 (that I can think of right now) limiting factors:

1) You would have to be on the same cable network as the remote modem - so, no, you couldn't "jump" networks
2) The costs of the equipment to do something like that is outrageous and not worth it - considering software like PCAnywhere is about $100 or less
 
  #5  
Old 11-19-03, 10:58 PM
josh1
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1 I would need a connection to each different cable supplier then? ie comcast, verizon, citizens? hmmm

2 the supply side network equip is expensive? Ok

but on the receiving side, i only need cable modem+controller, right? receiving side must be cheap, supply can be $$$.

thanks-Josh
 
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Old 11-20-03, 06:08 AM
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I have gotten lost on exactly what you want to do.

Let me drag out a dictionary. Modem is a term that we have been using all through this discussion. Modem is not an accurate term, but is commonly used for DSL and Cable internet services.

A modem (MOdulator-DEModulator) technically converts digital signals to analog signals for transmission over regular telephone lines and converts the analog signals received to digital signals for use by the receiving computer. This is what happens with dial up service. DSL and Cable "modems" are not modems and don't do this. These items are called modems, but aren't.

Cable is a service, the same as electric power is a service. You have power lines connected to your house, but without the power company, you don't have electricity. You could send power over the lines to your friend and he could send it to you, if you could arrange to use the power companies' lines. This how regional power distribution works.

You can use any medium you want, if you can couple the data signal to the medium, direct, and amplify the signal as needed.

For that matter, you could send and receive your data over the power lines or as radio waves(wireless).

but on the receiving side, i only need cable modem+controller, right? receiving side must be cheap, supply can be $$$.
True. Look at the cost of your FM radio versus the cost of the FM radio transmitting equipment.

I would need a connection to each different cable supplier then? ie comcast, verizon, citizens? hmmm
You need a method to direct the signal physically and amplify it as needed.

Unless you can pull a wire straight to your friend's house, it will likely be cheaper to use the existing infrastructure.

Hope this helps.
 
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Old 11-20-03, 06:35 AM
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If you want to have your own network over which to relay information between you and your group without anyone seeing what is being relayed, you can use a VPN (virtual private network). You still need the physical connection: cable, telephone line, wireless, something. You just set up a VPN server and the programs on all the computers involved, and there you are.

With a VPN, a connection exists over the internet, but it is encrypted so that no one who is not part of the connection can see the data. The connection tunnels from one point to another.

WAN - wide area network. This is a construct of the medium to ferry the signals. It is yours because you control the IP addresses involved. This is how Earthlink controls its WAN, its subscribers to the DSL service it provides. This is Earthlink's DSL WAN. I am part of if, because I get my IP address from Earthlink as a benefit of my subscription. My neighbor may be part of Bellsouth's WAN for DSL, because he subscribes to Bellsouth and gets his IP address from there. The service is coming over the same DSL lines, but is separate because of the different WANs involved. Bellsouth controls his connection, because Bellsouth controls his IP connection.

LAN - local area network. Just the network at a locale such as company or a residence. The 20 drop network in my house is a LAN. I control the IP addresses. You can plug your computer into the network, but don't have any connection, unless I allow the router to accept your connection. Otherwise, you have a computer connected to a network that will not work. If I set you up with an IP address and its trimmings, you are set to go on the network. With further settings, you can gain access to the internet.

Hope this helps.
 
  #8  
Old 11-22-03, 01:42 AM
josh1
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what im looking at is video on demand, much like movielink and "in demand" channel, but im breeding on demand video with a "currently being reverse engineered TIVO device. so you see where im headed, slap a cable modem in a modified tivo, roll out a nationwide WAN (or similar network) and then set up individual accounts. annihilate blockbuster/wal mart/netflix/movielink.

insane? do-able? i think shed go over well, lots of folks hate computers (cough me) and many dont have one, but tons of people have an insulated coax cable into their home.

this is why i have the cable modem speed ?s, at 1.5mb/s were talking 10 mins for a 750mb movie, maybe 15 if those extra packets you talked about. People will not wait hours for this.


netflix sucks because typically 1/2 hour elapses between when people decide to rent a movie and then go get it, 2 -3 days is unacceptable. If i can give you a movie in 10 mins over existing cable lines for 3.99 you might consider it convenient.

PLUS I dont have a DVD player lots of people dont. my computer has one but who wants to watch a movie on a crappy 17" monitor. not me, and we aren't all so savvy as to hook a computer toa TV if vid card doesnt have rca jacks... so im blending ideas to make the best "movie watching device" ever, as long as i can make the set top box cheap, hd drive, processor, cable modem, want it to be under $100 or so.

what do you think? insane? Thanks-Josh
 
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Old 11-22-03, 06:08 PM
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Inspiration is the key to many successes.
 
  #10  
Old 11-23-03, 09:43 AM
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Hasn't this been done already? I'm with Charter in Atlanta, GA - with their Digital Cable service, we get Video On Demand (of course, it sucks and hasn't been working for about 2 months now.) Fast-forward, rewind, TiVo-like, etc.

Great idea, but I think you may be too late.

Now, if you can figure out a way the cable companies can get the same selection that Blockbuster has - then you might have something. 50 movies just doesn't cut it - I've seen Back to the Future 1, 2, AND 3 100 times already!!!

Good luck!
 
  #11  
Old 11-23-03, 11:57 AM
josh1
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ah! i dont have digital cable and citizens doesnt offer video on demand, aside from pay per view, but you cant do the pause/rewind stuff with that.

does this digital cable video allow you to watch the movie multiple times or just once like a tv show? do they charge seperately for the videos or is it part of the cable package? can you select different movies or is it more like pay per view where they show a movie and you can either watch or not watch?

of course, sounds like atlanta cable hasn't quite got it yet, im looking to get licensing agreements for every movie ever made searchable by title, category, most popular etc.

Thanks for help!-Josh
 
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Old 11-23-03, 01:37 PM
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Take a look for yourself - <a href="http://www.charter.com/products/ppv/vod.asp">Here</a>.

Taking a look at that site, I see that they are updating the interface and the whole VOD system - that's why my service hasn't been available lately (but 2 months???)

Anyway, it's not PPV, we have that too. It is a menu-driven list of movies to choose from. Like I say, the selections aren't great, and half the time the system crashes. But, if you don't feel like going to BB, it's not bad. It is very similar to TiVo - they give you 24 hours to watch the movie as many times as you want - Play, Pause, FF, Rewind, Stop, etc - just like a PVR/DVR or TiVo.

The technology is still fairly new, so it's still somewhat buggy. But, like I say, it's not bad for a rainy night.
 
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Old 11-23-03, 02:11 PM
josh1
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thanks for link, it is very similar to my idea. couldnt find a cost per movie on the site, any idea what each movie costs or is it all consolidated into the cable bill? thanks-josh
 
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Old 11-23-03, 07:49 PM
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Most movies are $3.99 for the 24 hour period. Some of them (the really, really old ones) are $2.99 - they also have "Specials" which I haven't checked out yet.

Then they have the Adult section - ironically, there's a better selection there then in the Non-Adult section - these typically run anywhere from $9.99 up to $19.99 (depending on your preference.) Of course, these are not "real" adult movies, they are more aiken to the kind of thing shown on Skinemax late at night - or PlayBoy specials.
 
  #15  
Old 11-24-03, 01:18 PM
josh1
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i fear you are right i might be too late on this idea! comcast already offers a similar video service, but adelphia does not, yet. perhaps i could convince the tivo people to modify the tivo machine and let their marketing muscle do the hard selling work., while I provide the actual video delivery network.

ah well, a new idea for a new day.. thanks for all the help-Josh
 
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