Running 6 lines in a 4 story building....lots of questions


  #1  
Old 06-08-04, 10:36 PM
briandeitch
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Running 6 lines in a 4 story building....lots of questions

Hey all,

My first post, sorry I'm posting a question and not an answer.

I'm getting ready to wire up a building that is 4 stories tall and they want a total of 6 lines ran. I've never done anything like this before (I've only worked on exisiting systems) and would like any input you'd like to suggest.

Here's what I do know right now and I will have the rest of it tomorrow

3 Lines will be used just for Voice
2 Lines will be used for credit card machines
1 Line will be used for a fax machine

They already have an exisiting phone system (will have the name tomorrow) that has the capablity to manage 4 lines. It appears that you can plug in 4 lines into the phone switch and it runs a single line to each phone that you can select up to 4 lines on each phone handset.

I'm thinking that I should use the existing phone system to manage the 3 voice lines and pretty much run straight lines to each Credit Card machine and fax line, bypassing the phone system. They do not wish to purchase a new phone system, thus I think this is the best method.

I'm also thinking about using CAT5 to run all the cabling simple because I can run up to 4 lines/extensions (not telephone numbers) to each area/floor and then split it off at each floor level.

They also want to have a cordless phone (non a branded phone system name) on the main line. I'm thinking I can just punch that line onto the main line and run that to the desired location. What type of cordless phone would you suggest for this building? 4 Stories, brick and probably 100 + years old. Should I go with 2.4Ghz or 5.8ghz cordless phone? We will be running 802.11b (2.4Ghz) wireless access, so I know that they might interfere (unless u set different channels). I know that 2.4ghz has a better range throught dense walls but I don't know too much about the 5.8ghz specs.

Also, what equipment do you recommend? Here's my list thus far:

RJ11 Crimpers
Black electrical tape
12 boxes/faceplates
tapping kit, tone out device???don't know the name
Phone punch tool
Tack Gun
CAT5
Regular Phone Wire
RJ11 Ends
Cordless Drill
1/2 Drill Bit
Fish wire
Phone block ??don't know the name, used to tie the lines together, kinda like a switch

I will have pictures of all this fun stuff tomorrow. And lastly, what do you think I should charge to pull off a job like this?

Thanks in advance!
 
  #2  
Old 06-10-04, 06:00 PM
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this is really not the kind of job to learn on

my suggestion would be to contact a proffesional who will allow you to work alongside and learn while doing. it could still be your job just take what he charges you then charge your customer that plus 50.00 or so that way you still make a little you gain aome knowldge and you will be able to maintin the sytem and make money on MAC'S

with the total lack of knowldge you display in your post ,no post or two to a forum like this is likley to give you enough knowledge to complete this job in a
satsisfactoy manner.
 
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Old 06-10-04, 09:20 PM
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I've got to say, I think I would agree with Mango Man on this one. If you've never wired up a building, you should definitely seek some help - and not just online help. There are a lot of tips and tricks that you can learn from a professional - not to mention, they will already have many of the (expensive) tools you will need to complete the job (like a punch down tool, fox and hound - which, btw, if you're running the wires you shouldn't need one - etc.)

As far as pricing, I would try to find someone who will go 50/50 with you (highly unlikely, since they will be doing most of the work and you will just be watching/learning) or at least 25/75. A job like that sounds like $1500+ easily - probably closer to $2500. But, that's a total guess, not knowing number of the exact number of drops.

BTW, if you don't know anything about KSU/PBX systems, you will definitely want some help - they can be a real pain to figure out sometimes. Get a manual if you can find one.

Good luck with the job. Just keep in mind, the last thing you want to do is get in over your head and end up losing money on a job that could have been a good moneymaker.
 
  #4  
Old 06-10-04, 10:39 PM
briandeitch
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1st off, thanks for the replies...but I've already started the job. eek!
here are the pics I promised....crappy camera, my good one took a crap

the building


box where the 6 lines come in from Quest


this is in the crawl space by the box from Quest...it's a mess


another view


don't have any clue what this is


another block just laying in the middle of nowhere


Okay, we are outta the crawl space and into the "phone room"
phone network by nortel horrible pic...sorry


box opened, to the left the lines from Quest...to the right, lines/extensions out 16 MAX


punch blocks below the Nortel box


Okay, please keep in mind the pics above are not my work. That's exactly how it looked before I started. Once I'm all finished I will post new pics.

Well as luck would have it, 2 of the lines were already connected to the phone network, so with a little bit of reverse engineering I was able to run more line to the box with sucess. By the way, the Quest phone guy left me a piece of paper that old me which colored wires were which phone lines. With that I've been able to run all the lines into the main phone room. Now all I have to run out the lines to the desired destinations and i'm finished.

What's even more amazing, the phone system still works even after being powered down for 7 years. As of right now I have 2 phones on the network and 4 more to go, and even better I can select all 3 lines.

I called around and got some quotes. I decided to go cheap and charge them $1700 plus materials.

I searched around and as it turns out, 2.4ghz phones are better for penatrating dense walls.

I will keep ya posted.

EDIT: derp, can't use img tags?
 
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Old 06-11-04, 05:18 PM
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derp, can't use img tags?
Nope, but you can use HTML.

As for your project, if you're just adding to an existing job, and you already have instructions on the phone system, then you should be ok. Reading your first post, I thought you were installing new or remodeling a job.

If they have Cat5, you may be in luck and won't have to run any wires. But, if the building is older and only has 2 pair or something like that, then you'll be pulling wires.

Good luck with it!
 
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Old 06-11-04, 06:53 PM
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no reson to run cat 5 the norstar will run just fine on cat 3 or less and you will gain nothing by using cat 5 from the pictures you may have 25 pair going to each office from a old 1a2 so you will have plenty of mdfs to tap into

the norstar phones just use one pair no matter how many lines so you will probably be just fine with existing wire

you mention 2.4 ghz cordless I dont beilive you can intergrate them with the norstar they would have to wired parall and that can be a real mess user wise.

1700 seems pricey for a few hours work but if you can get it more power to you
 
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Old 06-11-04, 10:07 PM
briandeitch
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hey guys,

You're right, I'm not starting from scratch however I'm still doing 6 drops. As for the existing lines that have already ran, I had to tone out 3 of em because they weren't connected to the phone switch/block.

I decided to run cat 5 to each location because I can put in 4 lines/extensions per drop. I think it will help out in the long run if they ever decide to add more phones to their setup, kinda screws me because they won't need me in the future but I had an abundance of cat5 at the house.

The hardest part was figuring out how to add the new line to the phone network. It took me a good hour and then I was good to go. As of right now, I'm just about done, just need to make the two lines I ran for the credit card machines work, put in the emergency phone, and try out the cordless phone idea. I'm gonna try to splice the cordless phone into the main line that connects to the norstar box, might work but I don't know if that will work. We will see. I'm betting it will show on the norstar end that the line is in use and vice versa.

Now for the funny stuff. The Norstar instruction manual says that it should be placed in an area free of microwaves and other large machines the give of an electronic pulse because it could mess with the system. Guess where it's mounted? Right next to the engine that runs the elevator that is about 5 ft tall. I told the owner and she didn't seem to care. I guess time will tell if the elevator interfers with the phone system.

Right now I'm at 6 hours and counting. I quoted the lady 10hrs plus materials. I quoted her $1700 but $1300 was labor and the other $400 was materials. I'm only at $150 for materials. I think I'm doing a pretty fair job for the money but I'm sure someone as advanced as you two probably could have knocked this out in a couple of hours. I'm still a newbie!
 
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Old 06-12-04, 05:03 AM
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I'm betting it will show on the norstar end that the line is in use and vice versa.

nope the norstar wont show the lines as in use and the cordless wont show if the norstar has the lines no integration at all two seprate systems tying to share the lines they won't like it beilive me

as to the nosrtar sharing the wall with elevator equipment no big deal
 
 

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