Video and data cable run

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Old 05-01-05, 03:07 AM
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Video and data cable run

I'd like to run phone, video, intercom and data out to a workshop in my backyard that is approximately 200 feet away from the house. This would all be run in the same conduit.

Can I run cat 5 to use for data and intercom and run a separate dedicated phone line. The coaxial cable would be used only for TV.

Would this be the optimum way to run, or what can be suggested ??

Thanks,
 
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Old 05-01-05, 09:29 AM
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If by data you mean a computer network connection, then it will need it;s own cat 5 run. Us another run of cat 5 for the phone line and the intercom. Make sure that you use cable rated for a wet location, as the conduit will fill with water.
 
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Old 05-01-05, 09:38 AM
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At 200'+ you will need to be aware of signal loss on the TV line. You may need a booster amp before it leaves the house. A 5-10db one from Radio Shack should be plenty. If you're trying to extend a digital cable line then you should stick with RG6 Quad Shield. There is no issue running them all in the same conduit, they even make structured wiring with all of them in one cable.
 
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Old 05-01-05, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by racraft
If by data you mean a computer network connection, then it will need it;s own cat 5 run. Us another run of cat 5 for the phone line and the intercom. Make sure that you use cable rated for a wet location, as the conduit will fill with water.
Don't I just need 2 pairs of twisted wire for the computer network, and only one pair for the telephone ??

If the joints of pvc conduit are glued together how can water get into it ??

Please advise....
 
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Old 05-01-05, 02:09 PM
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A 100 MBit computer connection needs all eight wires (four pairs) of the cat 5 wire.

Conduit fills with water because of condensation. You cannot keep water out no matter what you do, so don't even try.
 
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Old 05-01-05, 02:09 PM
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In theory yes you only need 4 but practically speaking pulling seperate CAT5 lines is better. It accounts for future technology and may keeping from repulling the lines if you ever want to add more.

As for the PVC; water, dirt, roots and heat and cold are murder on anything buried. Only takes one miss with a shovel or a good heave during a freeze to crack PVC. This is not to mention condensation that might get end from either end of the pipe. Why take the chance that five years from now something might happen. The wires not that more expensive.
 
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Old 05-02-05, 12:00 PM
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if it where me I would bury conduit 1" 0r 1 1/2 pull two cat 5 cables and your coax. along with a pull string .
I wouldnt fool with the direct bury cable , its relitivley expensive and more importantly hard for a non pro to get .

if you have problems 5 or 6 years down the road pull new cable .
 
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Old 05-02-05, 08:23 PM
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A slight correction (with comments)...

Ethernet (10mb) and fast ethernet (100mb) use two pair of wires. The new gigabit (1000mb) uses all four pair of wires.

For 99 percent of all home applications, ethernet is good enough. 10mb file transfers can be slow (really only noticiable when moving large blocks of data), but it is plenty fast enough for surfing and gaming.

Only if your moving big files around does fast ethernet show its benefit.

But, the cost is just about the same (if not cheaper) anymore for 100mb hardware as 10mb hardware, go with Fast. The 10mb hardware has almost gone the way of the dinosaur.

Gigabit is a bit excessive for the home user (in my opinion), and the cost is still quite a bit more than 100mb. Most people won't be able to tell the difference between gigabit and Fast. Other than bragging rights.

If you don't want to run gigabit, you could use the spare wires for phone lines.

I like spare wires!

Don't skimp on the wiring though. If you skimp on anything, skimp on the hardware that attaches to the wiring. You want any wiring job to last a lifetime. The added cost of wiring is worth it doing right the first time.
 
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Old 05-02-05, 08:36 PM
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Another topic.

I ran Cat 5 wires between 3 houses once. I just buried in the ground, didn't do anything special, just buried it in some sections, not in others. Ok, this isn't the recommend way of doing it, but it worked great for a couple of years then the neighbors moved and I yanked it up.

The only problem was a lovely lightning strike that blew out every NIC and hub attached (wires were still good enough to game). It only happened once, but it sucked.

I know I may be contradicting myself here, but the wiring job was never intended to be permanent installation and was only buried in the areas where the dogs could chew on it.
 
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Old 05-03-05, 12:39 AM
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Okay, let's answer this question once and for all.

100 Base T connections need 4 twisted pairs to work in full duplex mode. To work in half duplex mode they only technically need two twisted pairs, but they will work better in half duplex mode with four twisted pairs, as they can use T4 mode.

The above is more than most people need to know or even care about. Bottom line. Don't skimp on cable and try to limit a 100 Base T connection to less than four twisted pairs. It;s not worth the aggravation.
 
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Old 05-03-05, 01:43 AM
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doglips brings up a good point about lightning.

if it where me I would unplug both sides (house and workshop ) when not in use .

effective lightning protection can be costly

you certainly can run a ethernet connection on two pair trouble free , I have split a cat 5 cable more than once with satsifactory results especially if the prime use is internet sharing that might run 5mb on a good day .

that said I wouldnt plan it for a new install .
 
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Old 05-03-05, 02:06 AM
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Then there is another issue that hasn't been brought up.

Do these detached structures have a bonded ground? Racraft, correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it required that grounds between these structures be bonded before any of this cabling can interconnect the two buildings?
 
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Old 05-03-05, 02:56 PM
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Communication wire is different. The code on CATV is simply that it has to be grounded before it enters the building; either to the building ground or to a 6' grounding rod. If there even was a way to ground CAT5 doing so would eliminate all signals on the cable. However, a good surge supressor on both wouldn't hurt if your area is subject to lightening. However, CATV surge suppressors are murder on the higher channels so it is a tradeoff.
 
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Old 05-03-05, 07:30 PM
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telecom cable should be bonded and grounded and have primary gas tube lightning protection everytime it enters a bldg.

ethernet really shouldnt leave a building on copper but rather should be fiber link between the buildings


to be done properly requires, tools connectors ans skillset not likely to be availble to the DIY'er

real world to power up a workshop I would run regular cable in conduit and plug in only when neeed. If its not plugged in it can't be damaged.

as to "surge" protectors they will be a waste of money if the cable isnt propelrly bonded/grounded any surge protector you are likley to buy would be considred "secondary" protection and would be inefectual without properley installed primary protection.
 
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Old 05-26-05, 11:30 AM
Justin C
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APC makes grounding devices for Ethernet. They cost about $20 - $30 and have 2 ethernet ports (in & out) and a ground wire. Cheap and effective protection
 
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Old 07-06-05, 01:41 PM
as6o
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As a pedantic exercise I did a little research.

There are many types of "100 Base T" connections and standards. The most relevent to this thread:

100Base-TX (by far the most common implementation) requires two data-grade (i.e. Cat 5 or greater) twisted pairs for full-duplex operation
100Base-T4 requires 4 POTS-grade (Cat 3) twisted pairs

Chances are that people on this thread are using 100Base-TX.

FWIW: If anybody is looking at running cable get at least Cat 5e (can support the "copper" 1000Base-T implementations which can help future-proof your installation a bit) but better still would be to bite the bullet and just go with Cat 6 if you can. Also, best to not mix a single cable for multiple uses (i.e. two pairs for data, another pair for phone, etc.) You're just asking for interference issues and you'll just confuse yourself trying to keep the pairs straight. Cat 5e cable is cheap, just run a line for each need (I personally have run 3 Cat 5e cables and 2 RG 6 coax cables to all of the rooms in my house.) I'd recommend RG 6 instead of the slightly cheaper RG 59 for its better signal insulation (you can use it with cables modems, satellite, etc. if you ever need to.)

References:
http://standards.ieee.org/getieee802...2002_part2.pdf (page 170)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100BASE-T
http://www.dataworlddirect.com/fastether.html#100
 
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