Phone jack wires confusion

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  #1  
Old 04-09-08, 07:47 PM
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Question Phone jack wires confusion

Hello people,

Please help a software guy with little home hardware knowledge...

Here's the situation:

Near my work desk used to be a phone jack. The previous owner wanted his phone in the other end of the room so he covered the jack and pulled a couple of wires from it.

I'm getting fed up with my cable company so I wanted to put the jack back and connect a DSL modem to it.

So I took off the cover and found 3 pairs of wires: Green with White markings + White with Green markings, Orange/White + White/Orange, and Blue/White + White/Blue.

The wires that lead to the other jack are Blue/White (connected to the Red wire) and White/Blue (connected to the Green wire).

Now, I'm confused.

Do I need to connect one pair or 2 pairs for the DSL?
Which pair(s) should I use?
Do I connect them to the Red & Green terminals (like a regular phone), to the Black and Yellow terminals or to both?

Your help is much appreciated!
 
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Old 04-10-08, 05:55 AM
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proper color code would be the blue white pair hooked to red green with dsl filters used where needed .

if a dsl splitter is installeed at the NID then you would use blue /white for voice and orange white for DSL

the black yellow wouldn't enter into it
 
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Old 04-10-08, 06:09 AM
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Alex
MangoMan is 100% correct...... but if this does not work let me eloborate just a little more.

Many houses i see have people wiring or changing wiring and not following color codes or proper wiring..... EASIEST is to find your homes DMARK point -- usually in basement/garage areas -- that is where the phone company ends their line coming from the street.... that is where all inside home telephone wire should start from as well......

Quick look there should also tell you if they followed the right wiring and used Blue/White (tip/ring) for Line1 as normal

if not then you can change there to blue/white OR change your one jack to their color wires used --- i always recommend using right color wiring as helps everyone in the future......

Black/Yellow is generally used for Line 2 which is why Mangoman said it does not come into play.....

hopefully your home is still wired as per phone company install and all you will need to do is follow Mangoman's instructions.....

good luck!!!
rf
 
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Old 04-10-08, 07:36 AM
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Thank you mango man and rookieRobert!
Originally Posted by mango man View Post
proper color code would be the blue white pair hooked to red green with dsl filters used where needed .

if a dsl splitter is installeed at the NID then you would use blue /white for voice and orange white for DSL

the black yellow wouldn't enter into it
If I install a splitter, what terminals do I connect the Orange/White to?
What's the Green/White is for then?
 
  #5  
Old 04-10-08, 12:19 PM
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Traditionally single POTS line are
White(T1) with blue stripe goes to Green
Blue (R1) with white stripe goes to RED

IF you have 2nd line then
White (t2) with orange stripe goes to Black
Orange (R2) with White stripe goes to Yellow
*** sometimes this varies


Anyway, for ADSL a splitter is suggested near the NID to help with better DSL response AND eliminting "cross talk" on the phones.... Did your phone company just "clean" the line and run one line for all inside ??? I love them!! haha

AFTER your NID you should install your DSL splitter

has three sections
one section is INCOMING network signal -- Red and Green screws .... that you will connect either the Red/Green wires from the NID or the Blue/White ones... pending on who is wiring.

Then, next section will be VOICE SIDE ...
Green screw should attach White w/Blue stripe
Red Screw should attach Blue with White Stripe
**** this should be for all PHONE JACKS

the final section will be DATA side
Black screw - White with Green Stripes
Yellow Screw - Green With White stripes
** This should ONLY go to the DATA JACK which services your MOdem/Router ....
do you need this jack to be BOTH Data and Voice??

Once you do this then you can remove all the DSL filters the phone company gave you !!

Good luck
 
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Old 04-13-08, 04:24 PM
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Please bear with me, I'm new at this.

I don't think I have a NID. The only thing that looks like it is from the cable company.

That's the demarcation point:



And this is how it looks like inside:


I noticed that a white+blue pair is connected and that two red+orange pairs are not.


After cutting off a piece from a back of a closet I found the distribution panel:


The blue and white wires from the dmark are directly connected to red and green ones from the cable on the left.

I assume that the left part is for our phone line and the right side for a second line (that we don't have).


Here's another pic:


The blue/white and the green/white wire pairs I mentioned above both connect to the same side (right), while the orange/white pair connects to the left side.


How do you suggest I proceed from here?

Thank you,
Alex.
 
  #7  
Old 04-14-08, 05:19 AM
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The green & red wires are active in the old jack. In the new jack the white/blue and blue/white wires are active. Disconnect them if you're going to remove the new jack.

If you get DSL you can use filters at every jack in the house.

Or you can use one filter at the distribution block (the last picture): Insert the DSL filter in place of the two B-Connectors (white "beanies") where the green & red wires are connected to the white & blue. In addition, connect the black to the white and the yellow to the blue before the input to the filter.

You'll now need to install another jack where you want the DSL modem. This jack -- and this jack only -- will have the black and yellow wires connected to the green & red terminals. The easiest way to do this is with a double-jack wall plate. Label the DSL jack on the wall plate. You also may want to leave notes in both the wall box and the distribution block for the next homeowner.
 
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Old 04-16-08, 04:18 PM
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What is the big box that that small terminal box is zip tied to?

The block you have a picture of is really just a terminal block, it's not offering you any form of protection.

A typical NID or Demarc will have a jack inside where the customer can unplug their house from the phone line to test. They also have protectors inside to protect from lightning and or other power coming in on the lines.

If there's nothing like that, I'd give your telco a call and ask if they can install a more modern NID on your home. This should be free of charge.

Sorry for getting so off track here.
 
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Old 04-16-08, 04:50 PM
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The block you have a picture of is really just a terminal block, it's not offering you any form of protection.
its not a terminal block its called a protector rather than a NID

there are gas tubes under there (the silver things at the top of the picture ) referencing the center ground

so you are protected as well as any newer model

If there's nothing like that, I'd give your telco a call and ask if they can install a more modern NID on your home. This should be free of charge.
I wouldn't expect this to be a free call ,nothing wrong with whats there

now if you had a them out there for a repair they might replace it while they where there
 
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Old 04-16-08, 06:42 PM
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Thank you very much for your advice!

Just one more question: Can you recommend a DSL splitter for the wiring that I have?

Best wishes,
Alex.
 
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Old 04-16-08, 07:07 PM
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something like this is good you can mount it right next to the protector outside

from the protector to the splitter then one pair to the modem for DSL service and one pair to feed the phones

http://sbcpioneershoppe.stores.yahoo...podslspsp.html
 
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Old 04-18-08, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mango man View Post
something like this is good you can mount it right next to the protector outside

from the protector to the splitter then one pair to the modem for DSL service and one pair to feed the phones

http://sbcpioneershoppe.stores.yahoo...podslspsp.html
Woudn't it be easier to mount the splitter near the distribution panel inside?
 
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Old 04-19-08, 06:11 AM
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If it's easier for you then by all means put it where it's convenient.
 
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Old 04-19-08, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by alexoren View Post
I don't think I have a NID. The only thing that looks like it is from the cable company.
You say, "I don't think I have a NID. The only thing that looks like it is from the cable company."

Not having a NID would indicate to me two things...

First, your location is old (grandfathered) construction. This would be existing structures built prior to 1984. Most local phone companies never retrofitted their customers with a NID unless they were having phone company technicians visit to do inside (billable) work. Grandfathered structures merely have a lightning protection device at the service entrance usually immediately inside where the service loop enters.

Second, this structure is new construction and never had analog (POTS) phone service.

From your pictures, this structure looks pretty new (build after 1984). With such new construction and not having a NID, it seems like the only "phone" service that ever existed at this location was provided by the CATV company.

Is that true? If so, I have a suggestion.
 

Last edited by Rick Johnston; 04-20-08 at 06:05 AM. Reason: Adjusted quoted text to pertinent material only.
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Old 04-19-08, 09:26 AM
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protector box's as shown are all over the place around here and where installed well past dereg ('84) by all the Telcos

they are perfectly acceptable and meet FCC requirements

Ive never seen a cable company install those

why would they ?

if your dial tone is splitting off the cable they wouldn't need to install a separate protector for dial tone the protection would be on the incoming cable line
 
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Old 04-19-08, 11:33 AM
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No, I have regular POTS by Bell Canada
 
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Old 04-19-08, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mango man View Post
protector box's as shown are all over the place around here and where installed well past dereg ('84) by all the Telcos

they are perfectly acceptable and meet FCC requirements

Ive never seen a cable company install those

why would they ?

if your dial tone is splitting off the cable they wouldn't need to install a separate protector for dial tone the protection would be on the incoming cable line
In my area the cable company (COMCAST) offers three services, analog voice, Internet and TV, on one coaxial pipe. Verizon is our local telco and they are going like heck to compete with COMCAST. Verizon has a product called FIOS which comes to the house on a completely fiber optic pipe. FIOS offers these same three services on one fiber optic cable. Anyway, to get back to the issue at hand, COMCAST puts up a box outside to house their coaxial connections. It's not a NID, just a housing. Then several coaxial cables are run from a splitter in this outside box to each device in the house. The NID Verizon puts up outside the house is a FIOS NID. It's not an analog NID. It's a smart device that serves all three services but has no lightning protection because fiber optic doesn't conduct lightning. The FIOS NID breaks out the three services being fed from the fiber optic pipe. When these three services leave the NID the ports they leave on are as follows...

RJ11 for voice
RJ45 for Internet
Coaxial for TV.

Alex, when you say, "No, I have regular POTS by Bell Canada"...

Are you saying Bell Canada does not offer POTS service?
 
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Old 04-19-08, 04:46 PM
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the device pictured is a protector with gas tubes and with a obvious ground wire in the center

the cable company would have no reason to install such a device

nor would verizon with a FIOS install

Alex, when you say, "No, I have regular POTS by Bell Canada"...

Are you saying Bell Canada does not offer POTS service?
he said he had POTS service how to you conclude they dont offer it
 
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Old 04-19-08, 09:30 PM
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Alex;

Sorry, I misread you post...

You have plenty of outstanding advice on this thread, you certainly don't need any help from me. Besides, why would you want any suggestions from someone who can't even read your posts correctly! Again, sorry!



Good luck and goodbye!
 
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Old 04-20-08, 12:40 AM
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No need to take offense Brunno.
I appreciate your input.

To Mango man:
What's the advantage of having the splitter outside (near the protector) as opposed to near the distribution panel?

Thank you,
Alex.
 
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Old 04-20-08, 07:55 AM
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Offended?

Not in the least. I'm still laughing at myself!

You need an outside NID. Since none of you pics shows an "official" NID (the outside device shown is NOT for customer access) and since you were ordering brand new DSL service, you are in the "catbird" seat when it comes to having all of your problems solved with one simple visit from your local telco. The suggestion I was just about to offer is a "foolproof" way to get your local telco to solve your inside wiring problem for you at no cost. Not only that, telco would even install a brand new grounded NID outside completely equipped with the filter/s for any other non-DSL devices (FAX, phone, analog modem, etc.). It's a legitimate method I've observed my customers employ for years and it works every time...

Nice chatting with you, hope your buddies on here give you the advice you need.
 
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Old 04-20-08, 08:27 AM
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To Mango man:
What's the advantage of having the splitter outside (near the protector) as opposed to near the distribution panel?
none , in most cases the distribution takes place outside since you have a distribution panel that would be a place to mount it

Not only that, telco would even install a brand new grounded NID outside completely equipped with the filter/s for any other non-DSL devices (FAX, phone, analog modem, etc.). It's a legitimate method I've observed my customers employ for years and it works every time.
not if you order the self install on the DSL

filtered nids aren't installed by any of the three telco's in our service area at no charge


they will do the inside work of installing a filter for a added fee though

it all comes down getting what you pay for

pay them for the DSL install and they will install a splitter of some type

order DSL self install and its up to the customer (they will provide you with a filter packet though )

there is no need for a site visit to add DSL to a line from the telco end
 
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Old 04-20-08, 08:44 AM
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Alex;
Before I sign off completely and get out of your hair, I happened to notice on the last two (inside) pics that there are wire splices (telco veterans call them "chicklets") shown...

Yet I don't see any RJ31X...

Do you or did you ever have some sort of fire or burglar alarm service in this structure?
 
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Old 04-20-08, 09:14 AM
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good catch Bruno

it does look like there was (is) a alarm line going out on red green feeding back on black yellow

putting the splitter on the line before the red green will work just fine
 
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Old 04-21-08, 05:11 AM
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Geez, I thought I said that 17 posts ago!?!

Correct me if I'm wrong, alexoren ... The punch block appears to be indoors and has the necessary connections right at the field wiring (the cable that circulates through the house). The punch block also seems to be completely bypassed.
 
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Old 04-21-08, 07:49 AM
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The punch block also seems to be completely bypassed.
how so ?

looks like dialtone is feeding in on white blue beanied to red green to a alarm panel back on black yellow which feeds the "punch block "



(like you said 17 posts ago )
 
  #27  
Old 04-21-08, 04:02 PM
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"The punch block seems to be completely bypassed" was a reference to the white blue pair coming in from outside. Dial tone shouldn't be available right now anywhere else in that rig except for green red beanied to white blue.

You have a lot more experience than I, but I don't see where the other end of the 2-pair GRBY connects to anything in the photos.

I assumed that it daisy-chained to all the jacks in the house.

And ... it's now 19 posts ago!
 
  #28  
Old 04-21-08, 04:16 PM
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look at the third picture , the white blue goes to red green on a two pair cable the black yellow is punched down to the bottom pins with white/ blues red greens being punched down on the pins above .(common alarm configuration)

its a odd block but I'm assuming everything on that side is commoned

(unlike a split 66 block where only one pair of pins per side are common)

look to the other side and and its all orange/whites black yelllows again probably all commoned

so unlike a standard block all the pairs of pins on the right are common and all the pairs on the left are common

you have to watch '66 blocks " there are a lot of configurations out there

(BTW sorry if i come across as a PITA at times )
 
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Old 04-22-08, 05:20 AM
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I hope alexoren lets us know how that thing is actually wired.

You don't come across as a PITA. Never apologize for helping to make sure things are done right.
 
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Old 04-24-08, 03:35 PM
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Farewell Alex!

 
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Old 04-26-08, 10:12 AM
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Sorry for not responding earlier, work, family, finances, etc. were "high intensity" for a little while. Life gets interesting sometimes.

Yes, there is an alarm. In general, everything mango man said in post #28 makes sense.

I suspect that the Red&Green goes to the alarm box and the Black&Yellow on the left side of the "punch box" returns from it. As I mentioned before, I am much better at figuring out "wirings" between software objects

Some more pics about what I'm trying to do:


Here's the location under my desk:



And this is how it is wired:



A full frontal closeup:


The Blue /White are spliced into the Red&Green that go to a remote phone jack. The Black&Yellow of the jack are not connected.

PITAs are good when you are looking for information.

Thank you!
 
 

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