BELL Old Rotary Phone

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  #81  
Old 09-01-11, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by d_s_k View Post
Are you saying dsk to install a capacitor as per your sketch? If you looked in post 41 I did that

Thank you
 
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  #82  
Old 09-02-11, 06:48 AM
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I would ask you to figure out what may be wrong. As far as I understand, the ringer should be equal to the Western electric 500 ringer. If completely removed from the telephone, wired up after diagram, with capacitor as you have done, it should ring when connected across the line. Because i have one, I would have tested it by connecting it to an old field telephone (or other hand cranked telephone) and cranked it, to get a ring. (Never been smart enough to ask what you have of possiblities) If its not ringing when put across the line, ands somone tries calling, try to put it across the line before the splitter. (Data may be slower) and try again. If ringing now, the filter is a problem. Still it may be mechanical issues, but since this not is a common problem it has not been a great part of the discussion. You may also try to use one or another half of the coil in series with the capacitor. This may work, but the load may increase to equal to normal ringers 2REN You could try almost anything at a minimal risk, but do not connect it to the mains. (It may go well, the coil may burn out, you may get electrocuted.)

Furd seems to be skilled, so the problem in solving this may eighter be communication errors, or just that we have forgot to ask the right question about some very simple detail.

dsk
 
  #83  
Old 09-02-11, 08:26 AM
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Above my knowledge level but I'm wondering how easy it would be to build a simple circuit to change the frequency of line voltage to 20Hz.
 
  #84  
Old 09-02-11, 09:11 AM
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Well dsk I would like to figure out what may be wrong but my knowledge with electronics is almost zero. Anyway I think I have done what you are pointing as a solution but noticed in your diagram you have the capacitor between the line wires which I assume these wires are the red & black and I connected the capacitor between the slate and slate/red wires (in the attached photos these are the wires which I spliced after I removed the capacitor). Donít know if that makes a difference. Pictures of the ringer are here:
BELL Phone pictures by kolias - Photobucket

To my opinion, instead of trying with wires & capacitors to troubleshoot the ringer, there must be a way to test the ringer with a voltmeter to find out if it works or not. As far as I can see there is only one coil on the ringer and if this is burned the ringer will not work.

Can you tell me how I can test the ringer with a voltmeter?
 
  #85  
Old 09-02-11, 09:40 AM
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To test with your meter.

Use the 2 lower outlets, and set the meter on ohms 2000
Shorting test pins should give you a reading about zero.
Between black and slate you should read out a value of approx 1000 ohms.
Switch 20k and get a reading between Red and red/slate at about 2650 Ohms.
(readings +/-10% = OK)

dsk
 
  #86  
Old 09-02-11, 10:02 AM
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Let me setup my meter and I will post results now
 
  #87  
Old 09-02-11, 10:14 AM
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MY METER SET TO OHMS

Use the 2 lower outlets, and set the meter on ohms 2000 (DONE)
Shorting test pins should give you a reading about zero. (I GET 001)
Between black and slate you should read out a value of approx 1000 ohms.(I GET 970)
Switch 20k and get a reading between Red and red/slate at about 2650 Ohms.(I GET 2.62, I HAVE SWITCHED THE METER TO 20K)
(readings +/-10% = OK)

What all these numbers mean?

Thank you
 
  #88  
Old 09-02-11, 10:32 AM
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It means it appears the coil is good...your meter is just giving you the 2650 as 2.62 X1000....so it's spot on.

What you are actually measuring I'm not sure...the experts will get back to you on that.
 
  #89  
Old 09-02-11, 10:36 AM
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Well thatís sound good Gunguy,

Iím now anxious to see where the real problem is
 
  #90  
Old 09-02-11, 12:58 PM
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You have now measured the resistance in the coils, and the result is is nice reading; The coils are OK. (Equal to diagram)

The current should float go from ring (one the line terminals) in the red wire thru the first windings , out the red/slate thru the capacitor in the slate wire thru the last windings, out the black wire, and to the tip (second line terminal)

(The capacitor may be located en one end instead of between the coils if that is more easy.)

dsk
 
  #91  
Old 09-02-11, 01:55 PM
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Sorry for my ignorance dsk but you are talking about 2 coils and it looks to me that I only have one coil (as per the photo I sent) unless there is another coil inside the coil I have.

As mentioned before in post #51 I connected the red wire from the wall jack to red wire on the ringer and the green wire from the wall jack to the black wire on the ringer and with the new capacitor (0.47mfd / 400V) connected between the slate and slate/red wires the ringer does not ring when someone calls.

Perhaps the network module is no good?

What you want me to do now?
 
  #92  
Old 09-02-11, 11:33 PM
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corrections

Originally Posted by kolias View Post
Sorry for my ignorance dsk but you are talking about 2 coils and it looks to me that I only have one coil (as per the photo I sent) unless there is another coil inside the coil I have.

As mentioned before in post #51 I connected the red wire from the wall jack to red wire on the ringer and the green wire from the wall jack to the black wire on the ringer and with the new capacitor (0.47mfd / 400V) connected between the slate and slate/red wires the ringer does not ring when someone calls.

Perhaps the network module is no good?

What you want me to do now?
You are right, my English is not good enough.
It is one coil with 2 separate windings, wich may look like 2 coils in the schematics.

Your setup sounds right.

I do not think the network module is the problem.

By removing the module with the new cap. and testing it separate, you will find out how it is working. The connection should be to the 2 line wires before the other components. So if its not working, it is 1: the ringer, 2 the capacitor, or 3 not connected.
voltage should be 24-50V dc at line terminals.

This module could be connected to the line via a cord with modular plug in the jack, or just cords to the splitter.

Have to run, we have a selebration running here.

good luck

dsk
 
  #93  
Old 09-03-11, 06:14 AM
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So if my setup (ringer) is right and there is nothing wrong with the module (network), I donít see why the ringer doesnít work.

Removing the module is not easy but I can do it; the module is attached to the metal base of the phone with four rivets.

I donít understand what you mean by ďBy removing the module with the new cap. and testing it separate, you will find out how it is working. The connection should be to the 2 line wires before the other componentsĒ.

Please let me know in more details what the next step is
 
  #94  
Old 09-03-11, 01:50 PM
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I would like to mention that I have found a more suitable forum regarding this subject (classicrotaryphones) and I just started a new post there

I hope no one is offended by this and I want to say that I learned a lot from this thread and I appreciate it very much.

Thank you all who were involved
 
  #95  
Old 09-03-11, 02:20 PM
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No problem! Heck...thats kind of what the Internet is for isn't it?

Please let us know if/when the solution is found.

Kinda crazy isn't it? An old ringer type phone that you used to be able to just take down and swap for new.....and folks like us spend weeks trying to make it do a simple thing like ring?
 
  #96  
Old 09-03-11, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Gunguy45 View Post
No problem! Heck...thats kind of what the Internet is for isn't it?

Please let us know if/when the solution is found.

Kinda crazy isn't it? An old ringer type phone that you used to be able to just take down and swap for new.....and folks like us spend weeks trying to make it do a simple thing like ring?
I'm happy with your answer Gunguy and certainly when (and IF) I get it ring I will post back
 
  #97  
Old 09-04-11, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kolias View Post
I would like to mention that I have found a more suitable forum regarding this subject (classicrotaryphones) and I just started a new post there

I hope no one is offended by this and I want to say that I learned a lot from this thread and I appreciate it very much.

Thank you all who were involved
That is a very good forum.
dsk
 
  #98  
Old 09-07-11, 10:28 AM
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As far as I can see, the only thing to test is another capacitor, the size of 0.47 microfarad capacitor rated to 200-250 volts should be at about as big as the outer part of the little finger. (the older the bigger)
I'll guess the capacitor fills most of the plastic house on the printed board.

dsk
 
  #99  
Old 09-07-11, 11:26 AM
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Thank you dsk

I just called the phone company and a technician will call me within 24 hours to discuss the problem. I hope they will fix it at no cost and when I know what was the problem I will post the findings in both forums.

However if there is a cost involved with the phone company, then I will close this subject - not worth it to me to spend any money
 
  #100  
Old 09-09-11, 10:55 AM
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The phone company said that they checked the line to my house and all is ok; if I want to have a technician to check the lines / phones inside the house the minimum charge is $75 + tax.

Iím not prepared to pay any money for this exercise especially since all my phones are working well (except of course for the black rotary phone which does not ring) and therefore this subject is closed for me.

My conclusion is that I donít get enough current on my incoming phone lines to get the ringer working
 
  #101  
Old 02-26-14, 06:21 PM
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Thumbs up ringer works no echo

Hi. I dint know if this problem has been resolved yet, but I have done an experiment myself. BTW, I am not an expert on the bell telephone or any telephone, but have followed this thread to resolve my own problem. The wiring sequence is good (Ringer black to terminal L1 with green from line cord, Ringer red to terminal L2 with red from line cord, Slate (grey) to terminal K
Slate/red to terminal A.) It was also mentioned that the line-in wires yellow and black were useless and can be safely disconnected. i have don this and the echo is gone. just thought I'd spread some insight into this problem. I hope this helps.
 
  #102  
Old 02-26-14, 06:50 PM
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Thanks for the added information. It may help some future reader.
 
  #103  
Old 02-26-14, 06:56 PM
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Yes thank you... I will close this old thread though...

Please start a new thread...

Thanks...
 
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