DSL Internet working fine but no phone.


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Old 08-25-15, 02:47 PM
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DSL Internet working fine but no phone.

I have a router setup that is working just fine and has not changed (except for a new DSL router) for some time. The phone line off the wall has a filter which allows both a phone and modem connection. The internet connection is fine - I'm about to post this message. For the life of me I can't get a dial tone using two different phones. I've tried disconnecting all the router setup and just using the phone directly into the wall.

We've tried to get a service call but they say they have up to 72 hours to resolve the problem from the field office. When I look at the DSL statistics on the router the SNR values are pretty bad 6 and 9. This problem is new after last night's thunderstorm.

Any thoughts/ideas appreciated.

btw : If I have the router connected and then connect the phone - DSL goes down.
 
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Old 08-25-15, 03:21 PM
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I just want to verify the way in which you have all the different components here connected...

You have a filter attached to the phone jack in the wall.
Assuming that filter has two ports, one is connected to your phone, the other is connected to your modem.
Then your router is connected "behind" your modem.
And any computers are connected to the LAN ports on your router or via Wi-Fi.

Is this a correct assessment? I am pretty sure this is how you should have your network laid out. I don't have DSL myself, and it's been a while since I've worked with a DSL connection.
 
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Old 08-25-15, 03:33 PM
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Yes there is a filter on the wall (in the living room) but normally only the DSL router is attached to it. Normally the phone is connected to the jack in my wife's office. Today the phone(s) does not work anywhere.

For completeness (but I'm afraid irrelevant) I have another Cisco router and Vonage device attached to the DSL router. I have the second router enabled for VPN. All other devices in the network access the Cisco router Via wi-fi. This setup has worked great for over a year.

I've been browsing the internet and it looks like this is not an uncommon problem. We probably have a short someplace. The phone probably appears as off-hook. I just don't know how to diagnose it myself.
 
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Old 08-25-15, 05:47 PM
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The DSL modem is connected directly to the incoming phone line pair. Any phones on that same line need to be connected thru a filter.

I usually set up DSL installations so that the house(phones) can be unplugged while the DSL remains connected.

Sometimes there is a filter used that will connect the incoming line to an in port and then one out port for phones and a second out port for the DSL modem. In that application.... the DSL is a pass thru connection while the phones would be filtered.
 
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Old 08-25-15, 05:54 PM
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Twice I had the problem and both times the tech said one of my two wires were disconnected at the wiring cabinet on their end. Explanation was you need two wires for phone but only one for DSL.
 
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Old 08-25-15, 05:58 PM
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That is technically correct but DSL doesn't run correctly on only one conductor.
 
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Old 08-26-15, 04:15 AM
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We have 2 jacks each of which have filters plugged in. The jack in my wife's office is for her land-line, the jack in the living room is for the DSL router.

It is bad that her phone doesn't work - but it is even worse that when we plug in her phone it brings the whole (internet devices) down as well.

What do you call those devices that the telco employees use ? The ones that look like a world war II walkie-talkie with a dial pad and alligator clips ? Are they expensive ? Are they useful in locating problems ?
 
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Old 08-26-15, 08:38 AM
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Plugging in the phone without taking it "off hook" should not affect the DSL service. It sounds like your service is weak and since you have no phone service..... it sounds like it's a problem in the telco's lines.

That device is called a butt set. Originally they were a rotary phone but now all are pulse with a dial converter built in.

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They start around $100 and go up. You can find them used on eBay. You can also make your own by purchasing an inexpensive phone, a jack and some alligator clips.
 
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Old 08-26-15, 01:29 PM
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Thanks.

I remember having these same conversations with Comcast in the States.

As I understand it SNR (Signal Noise Ratio) is important.
our upstream SNR is : 5.5
our downstream SNR is : 9.3 (and I've seen it lower)

Looks like you have to be above 11 to have a good connection.
What is considered good DSL Noise margin / SNR ? :: SG FAQ

I don't know if that has anything to do with the phone part of our situation.

The first year we were here (in a different house) we had really bad internet connectivity - it must have been our lucky day when we went to complain and they said - ok - we will run a fiber-optic line to your house. Turns out they needed about 1/4 mile of fiber. Fiber is really nice. Our new house is a little more isolated.
 
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Old 08-26-15, 01:39 PM
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Last time the phone went out in my parents house I hooked one up at the NID - no signal so I knew the phone company was on the hook for the repair. Have you checked there yet?
 
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Old 08-26-15, 02:22 PM
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We live in slightly different worlds. We have a rectangular box perhaps two feet tall and 4 inches square outside at the curb. Perhaps that is a NID ? I think that it is shared with neighbors.

All our services are underground (phone, electric etc).

I don't believe there is anyway to hook a phone up to it. Two weeks ago - when we last had no phone service - a 'friend' opened that box and using his 'butt-set' determined one of the lines was dead. He cut the end and stripped a new one - he did get a shock at one point. Anyway - that resolved the issue we had at that time. But at that time we did not even have DSL (internet).

Just trying to learn...
 
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Old 08-26-15, 07:06 PM
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We have the same type boxes here where the services run thru a development and are all underground. Those boxes by the street are where the services divide to service the different house but there should still be a connection point at the house. A place where the underground wire comes up and connects to the house wiring.

Learning is a good thing.
 
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Old 08-27-15, 07:18 AM
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I found the place where the underground wire comes up and connects to the house wiring. It is outside in the electrical 'closet'. There is a small white box with an incredible amount of wiring inside. There is a jack like port but it is not wired.

Who do you think has responsibility for that box ? The telco or us ? One way or the other I want to get that port enabled. And then I want to pick up a simple phone (like a 'princess' phone).
 
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Old 08-27-15, 10:51 AM
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In the States..... that is the demarc block and the service provider is required to supply service to that point. Anything from that point in is your responsibility.

My first test set was a princess phone back when Ma Bell had an iron grip on the phone system and it was forbidden to touch any inside wiring.
 
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Old 08-28-15, 03:48 AM
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The telco guy made it out here late yesterday. Nice guy - spoke excellent English (a very rare thing near us), He went to school in Montreal. Anyway - I showed him the 'demarc block' and he said that is an area very susceptible to shorting that is why it is wired directly with no 'jack outlet'. He said to leave it the way it is.

Apparently the green post (curbside) accommodates either 4 or 6 different connections. He moved us from #2 to #1 - about 6 months ago another guy moved us from #1 to #2 :-) He pointed out that there is still too much noise on the line (which is what we complained about 6 months ago). He said he would leave the problem open and request that they run new cable.

This morning -
our upstream SNR is : 18.3 (was 5.5)
our downstream SNR is : 28.2 (was 9.3)
 
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Old 08-28-15, 10:09 AM
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That is a very common problem with the underground wiring. It gets water in it and the crosstalk, interference between pairs, rises and actually nulls the DSL signal.

It's getting difficult to get decent DSL in many areas as the phone wiring is aging and is too costly to repair/replace.
 
 

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