what's quicker, DSL or cable modum?

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Old 09-21-04, 06:22 PM
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what's quicker, DSL or cable modum?

An easy question?
 
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Old 09-21-04, 07:10 PM
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Generally, I would say cable is faster.
However, cable can get bogged down in the evening when all the kids are gaming, etc. DSL is constant. I switched from cable to dsl and have not noticed a big difference, and it's cheaper than cable.

fred
 
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Old 09-21-04, 08:25 PM
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Of course it's not an easy question. it all depends on where you live/who the provider is/which package you are getting. But you also have to remember that no matter how fast your computer and/or connection, if you connect through/to a slower server, you are limited to their speed.
where i am cable is faster and priced the same. I do not live in a big city where they oversubscribe the service. The more people on your "node" using it at a time can present a bottleneck, slowing it down.Of course, the farther away from a "station" you are with dsl, the more chance that the connection will be slow. Check with others in your area to get a better idea. Our basic package is $24.95 for 1.5/500 and for the prefered $39.95 @up to 4 mb/512 and premium is $54.95 @ 5Mb/768 kbps.

A report in 2003 says cable is faster in general:
http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-997831.html
Of course, it wouldnt be hard to find an opposing view, but either way, they are both better than dialup!!
 
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Old 09-22-04, 04:17 AM
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So many factors. The cable service in my old neighborhood was fiber to the box in front of my house. The cable service was blazingly fast, regardless of how many neighbors were using it.
DSL is very fast if you are very close to the switch. If the signal has to travel more than a couple miles over the copper, it slows down considerably.
 
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Old 09-22-04, 04:44 AM
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Another factor to consider is the time of day.

Home use tends to be heaviest during he week in the late afternoon and evenings, when the kids and parents are home from school. Where I am the weekend seems to have pretty steady usage the whole time.

In my own experience (and I compared DSL side by side with cable before I committed to switching to DSL), DSL managed to maintain a fairly steady speed regardless of the time of day, whereas cable slowed dramatically Under heavy usage. Of course if I made the same comparison today I may find entirely different results.

If you are considering between the two, there are other factors you should consider as well, although speed is certainly a major factor.
 
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Old 09-22-04, 10:46 AM
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The guys hit most of the items, but 9 times out of 10, cable will be faster (on DOWNLOAD speed).

Chris
 
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Old 09-22-04, 07:09 PM
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But my phone is dead.

I live in the mountains & we lose our services in this order. 1st Cable TV 2nd the power goes off & if it's realy bad we will lose our phone service.

Now the Phone was down for 8 hours when Ivan the blow hard came for a visit. We have Cable today they got it fixed in 5 days Power took 2.5 days & this was a bad blow.

This is something I have never heard from anyone else perhaps they do not check it. Twice now I have gone online & reported my phone was out on DSL. Yes the first time I did complain there was no special place to report my phone was out even though I had DSL working, & some others use Cable & may still have power.

I don't quite understand why both times my phone was dead yet I still had full DSL use, & it has not been that long ago that I had Dial up . However with a dial up when the phone is dead so is your dial up.

In my everyday use of DSL I have never had the service get so slow at certin times of the day as I did when I had Cable Modem it was like the speed of dial up. Mind you I do not have tests results for uploads vrs downloads I am just happy with the speed & with Cable I *****ed a lot more on their everyday slow downs 8am, 12pm, 4pm to 10 pm. I don't see anytimes of the day that my DSL service is slower or faster it's fast enough to keep me happy & that's what counts.


Due to the unbelievable track record of Bell South & the fact I am leaving Cable TV after 14 years for good, & a Satilite Dish due to this last 5 day fiasco by their so called World class Media Com service. They are not nearly as profesional to work with as Duke Power & Bell South.
 

Last edited by marturo; 09-22-04 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 09-23-04, 04:33 AM
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Martuto,

I would not be too hard on any of the utilities regarding the restoration of service after a hurricane.

As for why the DSL would still work when the phone doesn't, that has to do with the internal switching. While the signals travel the same wires along the road and into your house, they are separated fairly quickly at the central office. Somewhere after the separation the "lines" or service equipment was down.
 
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Old 09-23-04, 04:54 AM
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Dsl

I love my DSL!
 
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Old 09-23-04, 11:56 AM
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Smile Mediacom monolopy

Bob trust me it has a been a very rocky relationship with Mediacom from day 1, 19 years ago. Both the Boob Tube and their so called Highspeed internet services, all 3 of them. This Ivan has been the best blow we have had since moving to Western NC. Sarasota Fla. now that was where we brought out the Iced tea to those heroic repair crews, it got real bad sometimes.

Many people have told me they just laugh at Cables poor atempts to scare us cable users from going to the Dish. Also Bell South has a Dish service now that if I signup I will save $ on my DSL & other Bell South services.

As a side note: After the first 2 years I had just about enough of MCs lies that it was my TV not them, & then I learned about line balancing. I called MC up and said you can just unhook my service! At that same moment I realized that MC was the only game in town LOL. Now to be honest with you I may watch 6 hours a week of the Boob tube. However I'm a Married Man so .

Thanks Bob for explaining the Magic behind having DSL without a dial tone a real + I believe .
 
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Old 09-25-04, 03:12 AM
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Originally Posted by WorldBuilder
The guys hit most of the items, but 9 times out of 10, cable will be faster (on DOWNLOAD speed).
No.

Speaking as a former systems engineer (no, not the guy who picks up the phone when you call with a problem, and not the guy who comes to install cable modems... the guy in the data center) for AT&T Broadband, RoadRunner, and Comcast, this statement is incorrect.

I'll use very broad terms, so people not interested in network and systems engineering won't have to wade through tons of technical information that they don't care about. If you want details, ask

Okay... with cable, you have a RNOC (Regional Network Operations Center) or two in your state, and you have headends. The cable company in your neighborhood is a headend (generally speaking) which connects to a NOC. I'll skip over blades in a headend (groupings of customers) to make this easier to understand.

If you happen to live in a community where not very many people have a cable modem, you'll be in great shape. The link from the headend to the NOC won't be saturated.

If you live in a community where there are tons of college students, or people working from home, that link is going to get saturated quickly.

While your cable company offers 1.5, 3.0, etc. speeds, you'll notice that it's always prefixed by "up to". If you usually get about 400 down, but can hit 3.0 at 4 a.m., your cable company has fulfilled their end of the bargain.

The problem is simple: cable companies don't make money off of cable modem customers. Honestly. It's a break-even proposition at best. They do make lots of money off of cable TV... and giving you a cable modem with an imaginary $10 discount over what non-subscribers pay is their way of making DirecTV and Dish Network look unappealing.

That's not to say that they won't upgrade their headends... but it's very expensive to do so. It usually involves pulling a new link and buying more capacity at the RNOC. For five users at a headend complaining about slow speeds, they're not going to shell out $12,000 worth of infrastructure and $3,000/month more for transit. For fifty, they will.

The upshot to cable is that you can generally be several miles away from your headend, and get the same quality service as someone on the same block.

On the DSL side of things, it's much different. Everything's at the CO (Central Office -- the "phone building" in your city), and more often than not, your telco is the one providing the DSL (even if they're providing it to a reseller). Once the equipment is in their CO, most of their costs are over. Increasing DSL capacity to a CO is a negligible task, with virtually no cost.

The downsides to this are that your speeds will drop off substantially, once you're more than two miles from your CO, and that your download speed is just about killed when you're uploading something.

For the sake of reference, when I worked for those cable companies, I could have had a cable modem for free. I still opted to use DSL. Admittedly, I'm about two blocks from my CO, and SBC offers 6.0/640 DSL here. It's consistent, and twice as fast as what the cable company offers.
 
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Old 09-25-04, 06:26 AM
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Kevin,

I'd agree with that, but the speeds you mention ("6.0/640") are so unrealistic and RARE (in all of my experience) that I still stand by my 9 times out of 10 statement.

From everywhere I see (and I travel a lot), the average download speed of DSL cranks out about 768k, with upload around the same. That's pathetic for a download speed.

The problem with NOC's getting "overloaded" in many areas is in the past, by my experience. Yes, from a technological standpoint, you're right. They can, and in theory would get overpowered by many users, but from what I see, cable companies took care of this problem a long time ago.

Chris
 
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Old 09-25-04, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by WorldBuilder
Kevin,

I'd agree with that, but the speeds you mention ("6.0/640") are so unrealistic and RARE (in all of my experience) that I still stand by my 9 times out of 10 statement.
Chris,

With all due respect, you could stand by the assertion that the sky is purple, and the Pacific Ocean is filled with cherry Kool Aid. That doesn't make you right.

Bandwidth is a commodity now. It has been since the late 90's. The only "real" expense is from the telco that's leasing you the line.

Even Mom & Pop's Video Shop can run a site on a 48mb co-lo link for under $200 a year.

I don't know what world you're living in, but hitting 6mb is common.

From everywhere I see (and I travel a lot), the average download speed of DSL cranks out about 768k, with upload around the same. That's pathetic for a download speed.
How are you measuring that?

Heck, how do you even know you're on DSL?

You're saying that you travel a lot. Presumably, you're staying in hotels. More likely than not, your connection at a hotel is a shared T-1 (~1.53mb), and not DSL. This is especially evident if you're seeing the same upload speeds, considering how unbelievably rare SDSL is compared to ADSL.

Geography certainly plays a role, but around the midwest (and let's face it... the midwest isn't all that technologically advanced) 768k DSL has been phased out almost entirely and replaced with 1.5/3.0/6.0.

The problem with NOC's getting "overloaded" in many areas is in the past, by my experience. Yes, from a technological standpoint, you're right. They can, and in theory would get overpowered by many users, but from what I see, cable companies took care of this problem a long time ago.
I don't mean to be rude... but I think my experience -- having worked for three national HSD providers and nearly a decade of experience with HSD and backbone providers -- trumps yours rather substantially.

Right off the bat, I never said that NOCs were getting overloaded. I said headends had the potential to. Two completely different network points, and two completely different states of operation.

Before going any further, would you care to explain what side of the network you're on when you're asserting "what you see" to be gospel?
 
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Old 09-25-04, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevin_28
Before going any further, would you care to explain what side of the network you're on when you're asserting "what you see" to be gospel?
Nope, it's not necessary. You've said what you like, and that's fine. I have no intention of continuing this discussion. This forum is not for arguing over technical semantics, it's for helping people out with their home-related troubles. Points made on both sides. Have a good day.

Chris
 
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Old 09-25-04, 12:19 PM
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Let's be COOL guys!

We have resolved one thing for sure:
Either cable or DSL is much faster and makes life on the NET easier than Dial-up!!

fred
 
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Old 09-25-04, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by fewalt
We have resolved one thing for sure:
Either cable or DSL is much faster and makes life on the NET easier than Dial-up!!
Cheers to that, Fred.

Chris
 
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Old 09-25-04, 09:21 PM
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dont mislead people

well, verizon is just now offering a 3 Mbps DSL whereas before it was just 1.5 Mbps .http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/3404471

Qwest only has Download speeds up to 1.5 Megabits per second (Mbps)
http://www.qwest.com/residential/products/dsl/

With Earthlink The maximum speed you can get with EarthLink DSL is 3.0Mbps (768Kbps in certain areas) in the "downstream" direction (information coming to you, such as Web pages or downloaded files) and 128Kbps in the "upstream" direction (information you send to others, such as your outgoing emails). https://register.earthlink.net/cgi-b...08fdb1699af829

I just did 3481.2 kbps on the speed test with cable
http://reviews.cnet.com/7009-7254_7-...=&&kbps=3481.2

and:http://www.dslreports.com/speedtests...com/1096172275

speed test archives here:http://www.dslreports.com/archiveonly 15 in the top 60 were dsl.

kevin_28, i see you are on ameritech, which is sbc.yahoo. there business packages only go to 1.5Mbps-3.0Mbps down and 384Kbps up.http://www01.sbc.com/DSL_new/content...952P192228B0S0
their residential only goes 1.5Mbps-3.0Mbps /384Kbps max. yes i know, they have the premiere serv DIA, but the average user wont know that.

I think that for the AVERAGE home user, most packages are between the 1.5 and 3.0 range. Sure, you can get up to 9.0 Mbps, but that is not usually the case. Lets not make everyone think they can go anywhere and for 30 bucks get 6-9 Mbps out of their dsl.
 

Last edited by tae; 09-25-04 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 09-25-04, 11:08 PM
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Originally Posted by tae
well, verizon is just now offering a 3 Mbps DSL whereas before it was just 1.5 Mbps .http://www.internetnews.com/xSP/article.php/3404471
Even faster where they're piloting their fiber network. So jealous... so, so jealous

speed test archives here:http://www.dslreports.com/archiveonly 15 in the top 60 were dsl.
It's worth mentioning that dslreports, while useful, is not necessarily an accurate indicator of aggregate bandwidth.

If memory serves, their test links are OC-45's. Considering the popularity of dslreports, it isn't at all out of line to question how often their links are saturated.

In personal tests, I can hit ~4900k sometimes, ~5500 other times, and ~1900 during the daytime. For some reason, the Megapath test is always below 1000k for me.

There are so many factors that go in to the compiled scores, the results aren't very scientific.

That said, there are certainly advantages with cable, depending on your provider. For instance, Akamai had tons of cache boxes co-lo'ed in the RNOC -- meaning sites that used Akamai services were often only one hop away for customers.

My point wasn't to say that cable was bad -- just that it wasn't inherently superior to DSL. Now, satellite data on the other hand...

kevin_28, i see you are on ameritech, which is sbc.yahoo. there business packages only go to 1.5Mbps-3.0Mbps down and 384Kbps up.http://www01.sbc.com/DSL_new/content...952P192228B0S0
their residential only goes 1.5Mbps-3.0Mbps /384Kbps max. yes i know, they have the premiere serv DIA, but the average user wont know that.
They stopped offering 6.0/640 to residential customers a few months ago.

For what it's worth, I'm moving next month to Verizonland, and Comcast is my only option. Since I have a satellite dish, I don't plan on subscribing to cable... meaning I'm looking at $59.99/month for "up to" 3.0. Unless the headend has been upped since last year, I'm going to be lucky to get a consistent 2.0.

In contrast, "up to" 3.0 with SBC DSL would be $36.99/month, and experience dictates that I'd have no problem reaching that speed.

I think that for the AVERAGE home user, most packages are between the 1.5 and 3.0 range. Sure, you can get up to 9.0 Mbps, but that is not usually the case. Lets not make everyone think they can go anywhere and for 30 bucks get 6-9 Mbps out of their dsl.
I agree totally. And I hope I haven't given anyone the indication that my 6.0 DSL package costs ~$30. In fact, it costs $99/month before taxes.

Speaking only for my region, I can say that if you have a choice (meaning: your cable company offers HSD and you're close to an SBC CO), DSL is clearly a better value.

I don't think anyone would really argue the published rates for SBC Yahoo, Earthlink, and Comcast.
 
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Old 09-26-04, 12:48 AM
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while we're here...

I would guess most people dont realize that their service provider often caches info on their servers. Meaning that if a person, or several people go to a particular site, say yahoo, for example, the server will cache that page for quicker access the next time someone tries to access it. so for example, if you set your browser to use the providers server as a proxie, theoretically you should be able to get to certain sites/pages faster. In my experience,it hasn't really helped me, but was just wondering if anyone else has done this, and kevin_28, if you have any thoughts/info about this from your professional side experience?
 
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Old 09-26-04, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tae
so for example, if you set your browser to use the providers server as a proxie, theoretically you should be able to get to certain sites/pages faster.
Most modernized ISP's have abandoned the practice of proxying for their customers server-side, with AOL being a major exception.

But, a lot of major sites have signed on with Akamai (or similar companies) to set up dedicated cache systems in an ISP's NOC or a common peering point.

For instance, a site like cnn.com may contract with Akamai. Akamai would put their cache servers all over the place (their servers are usually 1U x86 boxes running a custom RedHat compilation with a Gig-e connection on the local network).

So if you were a Comcast customer going to cnn.com, Comcast's DNS server would resolve cnn.com to the local Akamai server, and you'd basically pull the content off of the local network.

The upshot to this is if there's a breaking news story (Iraq, 9/11, etc.), you'll probably have an easy time getting the content, because you're only competing for bandwith with other customers within your ISP. The downside is that up-to-the-minute news may not be, depending on how Akamai has their cache box set to refresh data.

In terms of speed, it's probably difficult for you to determine without going to "cnn.com" as your ISP resolves it (to an Akamai box) and then the IP address of the "real" cnn.com for comparison.

For the record... I'm not positive that CNN still uses Akamai. But it works well for example's sake.
 
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Old 09-28-04, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevin_28
Chris,

With all due respect, you could stand by the assertion that the sky is purple, and the Pacific Ocean is filled with cherry Kool Aid. That doesn't make you right.
Do you mean to imply that the sky isn't purple and the Pacific isn't filled with Cherry Kool Aid?!? Ah Heck, now I've got to change my vacation itenerary.....
 
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Old 09-28-04, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Churchguy
Do you mean to imply that the sky isn't purple and the Pacific isn't filled with Cherry Kool Aid?!? Ah Heck, now I've got to change my vacation itenerary.....
Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but the Pacific is, in fact, filled with Lemon-Lime Kool Aid.
 
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