Can someone tell me if this is worth doing?

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Old 04-25-14, 01:04 PM
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Can someone tell me if this is worth doing?

As you probably read in the other thread, my garage XP machine is old and slow and maxed out on memory and such.

Wifey said what about my old PC where the HD died? Uhhhh, duh?

So I dig it out and look at it. PentiumD 820 vs the Athlon XP 2800+ I'm using now.

2G memory (upgradeable) PC2 5300 DDR2 vs 1.5G PC2700 DDR1
Has a video card and Firewire port just like I needed/wanted.

250G SATA drive (wife says it was still working? Then why did we buy a new PC? Testing in order.) vs 2 UDMA drives totaling about 160GB.

So though this machine is still pretty old, looks like I can use a 64 bit OS which will allow more memory.

Might be able to get out of this with just an OS upgrade and maybe a HD?

Then maybe next year I'll buy a this year PC.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 02:49 PM
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So you have to buy the OS and may have to buy a HD?

Yeah, that's still cheaper than a new PC.

Would you put Windows 7 on this one?
 
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Old 04-25-14, 03:14 PM
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Depends on pricing I guess. If the old HD does indeed work, I think I may still be able to get an upgrade to 7 or 8 pretty cheap, since it has Vista. Though I've found upgrades to be sorta problematic.

Til I get the old one up and running I guess I'm in limbo. Since the Athlon says 32 bit data width and the Pentium says 64...then I guess that means the Pentium can run the 64 bit version of whatever.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 03:19 PM
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Speed wise your processor versus my AMD Phenom II is slower than my processor but not so slow that you can't use it with Windows 7. Also your memory looks fine and Microsoft even says it meets the minimums however from what I have read you really need 2 Gigabytes more for the OS. Still though buying memory is cheaper than buying a whole new computer however you acquire it whether you build it or buy it. I also think you are right in buying a new hard drive even if the old one is still good. It gives the OS more room plus room for other things.

Memory probably $50.00 or less a new hard drive around $120.00 or less and Windows 7 around $130.00 or so depending on where you buy it and if it is System Builders or full retail. This of course is just a guess but based on past experience it shouldn't cost more than $300.00 to upgrade and if you were to build it yourself around $600.00 counting the keyboard. About $349.99 or so for a new computer as a starting price, the more you want the more you pay.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 03:52 PM
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Quote from Gunguy45:
"Then maybe next year I'll buy a this year PC."

Let's say that you spend $300 to postpone $600 purchase, for a year. Is it worth it? That's really the question. Replace those numbers with your own, if you think that they aren't accurate.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 04:10 PM
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Why not put a LINUX system on it. That's what I'm doing with a P4 2.4 Mhz with 512MB memory old laptop.

If you use something like LXLE a UBUNTU version that mimics XP very closely you can get a lot more life out that machine. This old lap top of mine will be put into the garage so I can call up any manuals as I work on machines and cars.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 04:14 PM
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Well, I don't think it will be be even close to $300....not that I'd spend that anyway. What I meant was, when the new models come out around Thanksgiving, I'd buy a last years model closeout, if I could find one that I liked that met my needs.

I saw downloads of OS's for $60-90 or so. 1TB Seagate or WD HD less than $60. Memory around $60 or even cheaper (if I even need it). That puts me right at the price of the local shops re-furbs, but with all the other stuff I'd need to add to theirs, it would prob be higher than me working with this one.

Sorry, I'll never spend $600 on a PC for what I do with it. Like I said, basic web surfing, email and downloading off my cams..thats about it.

Seriously, if it wasn't for the network connectivity and me not wanting to get frustrated...I'd just go to Linux. It works fine on my really old laptop, but we only used that for trips. Wifey has a nice ASUS now, so that old IBM will probably be wiped and donated.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 04:43 PM
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I only wish I was a child again when we had these...Cira 1974.. Was a great year...



My poor children with thier "I" everythings..

IMO the kids today are missing out on real world living.. All this talk of windows this and computers that is making me think of easier times when none of this was a worry...

Time for a camping trip to get away from all communications....

Sorry to get off topic.. ..
 
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Old 04-25-14, 04:58 PM
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Gunguy45, that's why I said to replace the numbers, if they weren't accurate. If it's really that cheap, go for it. It seems that your old junk is better than my old junk. I have 2 E Machines that are ready, for the garbage.
 

Last edited by Pulpo; 04-25-14 at 06:58 PM.
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Old 04-25-14, 06:10 PM
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Yeah, if I were any sort of gamer or wanted to use it as some sort of media server or workstation...I'd need to bump my budget up.

Mike...you must be younger than I thought. I did stuff like that in the 60's. Even had an old crystal radio that we found at the AF base landfill. Man I wish they still had those, you could rummage around for hours.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 06:34 PM
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Oh...I have to just say...I remember almost getting giddy when I first saw 5 1/4" HD's that were less than $1 per MEGABYTE. Man, how 20 yrs makes a difference. Average Cost of Hard Drive Storage | Statistic Brain
 
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Old 04-25-14, 06:56 PM
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Back in the 60ís we ran the mainframe OS and Applications in 500 kilobytes of memory (yes - 500 kilobytes). How did we do it ? I canít even remember. lol
 
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Old 04-25-14, 08:35 PM
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Update...old PC is functional...running disk repair now. But it fired up with no issues really. We'll see what happens. I figure run a disk utility from Seagate or WD (HD is a Samsung) and check it out, replace if needed. No odd grinding noises or anything. Since I plan on a new OS, not like I need to keep anything. Did that with a dock to save music and pics when we had issues before.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 03:33 AM
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Man, how 20 yrs makes a difference
Lot more than 20 yrs ago but remember the computer room on Man from Uncle? I have no idea if that wall of tapes/lights was close to being real or just hollywood but what did any of us know about computers back then.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 05:08 AM
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The original Seagate tools were fantastic. After the merge with Maxtor, they took a dive. I still like their drives, though.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 11:15 AM
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O....M....G!!!!!

Do local computer shops think I'm stupid or just crazy???

Just called about buying a copy of 7 or 8.1. Told them full version or upgrade, 64 bit. Guy said $200 for the upgrade, just the program. Or $110 for program and $140 for them to install. He must be down there smoking crack!!!

Good news is, turns out I must have upgraded memory in the past. Thought it had 2G based on all slots filled, even though it came with 1G stock. Guess I added a 2G kit since it shows 3G total in system. Getting better and better.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 11:22 AM
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Oh...anyone have any Pro's or Con's about buying an actual disc vs online downloads? And do you know if you can download on one PC, save to disc or thumbdrive, then install in another PC already running Vista? I guess thumbdrive might be problematic since it's not on my list of boot devices I don't think.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 12:34 PM
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Do local computer shops think I'm stupid or just crazy???
Those guys must be slimeballs! The pricing stuff really drives me crazy. I canít understand anything. But that is crazy Ė maybe those guys are really from Colorado where the entire state is now stoned! lol

I have no idea if that wall of tapes/lights was close to being real or just hollywood but what did any of us know about computers back then.
marksr Ė

I think you are right, there was a lot of Hollywood with the light stuff. However, when we had open houses where the employees could bring their kids in to see the big computers, we did in fact add some lights so the kids would be impressed. lol
 
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Old 04-26-14, 01:08 PM
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Oh...anyone have any Pro's or Con's about buying an actual disc vs online downloads?
Downloads are legal if the OS is open source like Linux but not with Windows there is no download available legally anywhere. Technicians can download a copy from Microsoft and re-install Windows but only if it has the license key already on the computer. However you can find it cheap enough at various online stores and at Amazon.com. If you don't have old programs that require Windows XP then go with Home Premium Windows 7 it is cheaper and if you do go with Windows 7 Pro you can use some Windows XP programs with a program Microsoft provides.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 02:26 PM
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hi gunguy-

looks like I can use a 64 bit OS which will allow more memory.
Maybe the other guys will weigh in, but I don't think you can run a 64 bit OS on the Athlon XP 2800+. Could be wrong.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 02:37 PM
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Nope...don't intend to. It will be on the "newer" old machine I mentioned. PentiumD 820....it'd a dual core 64 bit processor.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 02:43 PM
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I can't believe all downloads are illegal. Sure, the torrent sites probably are, but here's one from a reputable site...Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium Upgrade (OEM) - 32/64 Bit DOWNLOAD ONLY

Heck, you can get 8.1 direct from MS as a download only. You pay extra for the follow-up discs.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 03:01 PM
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Nope...don't intend to. It will be on the "newer" old machine I mentioned. PentiumD 820....it'd a dual core 64 bit processor.
Yep - I just re-read your first post correctly this time. lol
 
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Old 04-26-14, 03:07 PM
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Well according to JerseyMatt it is illegal to download a copy and I found an article that is old but supports what he says. I don't always agree with him or anyone else for that matter but the article does say it is illegal and you could even go further and ask Microsoft if it is legal to download. The answer would be no they no longer offer downloads legally in the full version. Here is a link to the article Where Can I Download Windows 7?. There are other articles out there that support this too.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 04:04 PM
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Oh... you meant just Windows 7. Gotcha. I think it depends on the version though. No, the retail version is no longer available, I think all the ones I saw are the system builder type? Apparently that is still being sold, but without any MS tech support. Read a story about a smaller custom builder in WA state that says 90% of his customers are still requesting 7.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 04:08 PM
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Holy crap! Can't Microsoft makes the distribution process easier? I've been trying to figure out how to go from Vista to Windows 7 (or 8.1) myself.

There is "Upgrade" -- and then there is ...upgrade. So if you can find a box with "Upgrade" on it, then you can upgrade (whoops, I mean "Upgrade").

But if it is not an "Upgrade" product, you can still upgrade (meaning migrate, I think?) with a fresh install of the "Full Version" (oh yes - let's get "Full" in there.)

Then there is OS downloading that is illegal - but are there downloads that are legal but are not via the subscription or the 90 day trial?

Then there is Windows 7 Professional (Old Version) - whatever that means? Do these things go stale on the shelf and stink up the place? And then there is "New Packaging" vs. I guess "Old Packaging" ? Is that important?


Then there is -

Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64 bit - OEM for $100

and at the same store


Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64-bit (Slim Envelope) - OEM
for $139

...and on and on. lol

Then somewhere I saw a tremendous difference in price between a boxed version that included Service Pack 1, and one that didn't. Over my head!

Just me I guess. I haven't looked at these things for years.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 05:02 PM
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Actually Windows 7 is still available has Microsoft made it harder to find you bet they want to sell their bloated Windows 8 which isn't worth the money in my opinion. I know there are people here who like it and for them as I said before great I am glad you do but it will never be on my computer.

Here are three retailers I buy from Newegg,TigerDirect and Amazon.com and their links first Newegg Newegg.com - Software, Operating Systems, windows 7 Now Tigerdirect Search Results for windows 7 at TigerDirect.com . Now Amazon.com Amazon.com: windows 7 - Microsoft Windows / Operating Systems: Software .

As you can see the results are varied but Windows 7 is available in an OEM package and a disk you can hold in your hand. Amazon.com says they no longer sell the retail package from Microsoft and I imagine why because of pressure from Microsoft. Anyway time to get off of my soap box there are other places that sell Windows 7 on disk and legal and certainly with varying prices. This is just enough information to get you in the right direction.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 07:10 PM
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thanks hedge!

But no, Iím not enamored with Windows at all. I started as a programmer way back in the 60ís. Long before PCís and long before the internet. We built custom systems and networks for the Military, FAA, State Department, friendly foreign governments, and later on for FEMA, , etc. These were systems with extremely high reliability and approaching 100% availability. OSís customized from the commercial running custom applications and some OSís even developed from scratch. Many systems developed with the NSA oversight.

I myself, although not the greatest programmer ever, just by chance got to do a lot of software development for a system with such importance that it requires a 2-Man-Key-Turn to release the most critical messages (email we might say) that one can imagine, command messages from the highest level of, shall we sayÖ the hierarchy. Many of our systems are in textbooks and you can also find them on Wikipedia. Iím pretty sure we also developed the first Mode-S transponder interface system, like the one that tracked the missing Malaysian flight. (At least I think we did the first).

Anyway, the reason I say all this, is to underscore the fact that IMHO Microsoft Operating systems have been a boon to mankind and it is obvious we are all way ahead, but no one should think they are seeing what computers are truly capable of when running the MS OSís, or Linux, or any of the popular OSís out there. IMHO MS OS does a million things but at the ďB-ď, or maybe even ďC+Ē , level.

But we are stuck with what we are stuck with. lol
 
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Old 04-26-14, 08:25 PM
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I know we are stuck with them if we want to run most programs written for Windows like Quickbooks for example. Some programs like word will run on Linux which as you understand even better than I is a fork of Unix. I personally would like to see Microsoft dismantled and turned into four companies that all do the same thing write Operating Systems and are more open. More competition would make for a better product!
 
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Old 04-27-14, 05:38 AM
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Do local computer shops think I'm stupid or just crazy???
Probably both!

Too bad you don't have a friend of a friend who is a computer geek and takes these things apart and rebuilds.

7 Pro 64 bit, 3GB RAM for $150. FYI I've only used it a day but it seems just fine with 3GB RAM.

Guess it doesn't take much to come here or spend the pension at Amazon.
 
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Old 04-27-14, 09:18 AM
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I know we are stuck with them if we want to run most programs written for Windows like Quickbooks for example. Some programs like word will run on Linux which as you understand even better than I is a fork of Unix. I personally would like to see Microsoft dismantled and turned into four companies that all do the same thing write Operating Systems and are more open. More competition would make for a better product!

Yes I know what you mean. Seems like the developers stick with MS. Breaking up MS might be a great idea. That may do the trick, as you say, more competition.

Seems like they made some kind of bad bet with Windows 8? Seems pretty much the feeling on the forum here also, although I havenít counted, I guess there are a few exceptions for it. But seems like overall itís a thumbs down on 8.I never used XP but it seems there are an whole bunch of people out there that are very satisfied with XP.

(Well actually I did set up a dual boot Vista/XP PC for my sister, she was stuck with a QuickBooks version that could only run on XP but her PC came loaded with Vista, and she couldnít upgrade QuickBooks because of backward compatibility issues with the clients who all had the old Quickbooks. A mess.lol But somewhere I found a procedure how to set up that dual boot and it worked. She was fine with it.

But I guess I would take JerseyMatts advice and not go the dual boot root. I believe he said thatís not a very good idea.)

Good thing about the forum, you get to hear from a lot of people, many of whom have used multiple OSís and several MS OSís. Helps a whole lot when you need to do some shopping.

But back to the original topic (I digress, lol) I think Pulpo has a point about putting money into a PC for a year. I guess it depends on how much and how certain you are about when you would really replace it? I think? lol

But I guess Gunguy is on top of things!
 
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Old 04-27-14, 02:32 PM
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Well, latest update...seems everything is working fine, running a long scan on HD now, but a few quick scans showed it ok.

One odd thing (and I think it was why we replaced it originally. We thought impending failure.). I was starting to button it up, securing the HD, reinstalling the add-on AGP 8X video card (which I had taken out to minimize any initial conflicts and to verify card model was compatible with newer OS's), cleaning fans vents, etc. Well, when I fired it up, the HD started making a rhythmic clicking. If I heard correctly...4 or 5 clicks about 1 sec or less apart, then pause for 2-3 sec, repeat. Kind of like the sound a drive makes as it's powering down and the heads go to the home (park?) position. Nothing running, just the basic OS and of course the junk programs installed by the recovery partition. I said what the heck? Loosened the HD in it's cage, no change. Powered down and removed the video card, restarted and no noises. I'm going to let the scan finish then re-install the card and see what happens...

How the heck could a video card cause a hard drive to sound like its constantly searching or parking? Don't think I actually checked the HD activity light. If I did I don't remember what it was doing.

As it is right now, it looks like all I'm going to need is the OS. If the HD passes all it's tests. It's only 250Gb...but thats way more than I've had for the last 4 years. Heck, on my 75G internal drive I have almost 50GB free...prob the same on my external.
 
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Old 04-27-14, 06:54 PM
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Sounds like a bad hard drive to me but sometimes drives will make some noises for a while and then stop. The video card though has no bearing on the hard drive and that was just a coincidence. What I think you should do is take the hard drive out and test it with a program called WinDFT which you can get here Downloads | HGST Storage . You will need an external hard drive cable as you can't test the drive inside of the computer. Here is a good cable made by a reliable manufacturer on Amazon.com Amazon.com: SABRENT USB 3.0 TO SATA/IDE 2.5/3.5/5.25-INCH Hard Drive Converter With Power Supply & LED Activity Lights (USB-DSC9): Computers & Accessories .

Until it is tested with that diagnostic tool you really can't be absolutely certain that the drive is functioning properly. I heard about this diagnostic tool from JerseyMatt. As for hard drive replacements while I was on Amazon.com I found some 500gb sata hard drives for not much here is a link to my search results http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...0drive%20500gb .

Good prices on 1TB drives too here is a link to those http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...hard+drive+1tb . Personally I like Western Digital hard drives I believe they will last longer and work better.
 
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Old 04-27-14, 07:01 PM
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Great!! I spend about 4 hrs today researching and downloading programs I need to burn a valid trial Win7 ISO file to a disk, using both the 'net connected PC's, then the new/old PC can't read the disk. Ok, copy it to a thumb drive and it finally says, you can't install this version because you have a 32 bit OS already installed.....grrrrr.

At least the HD isn't clicking. Going to re-install the Video card and see what happens.

My time is cheap, but it still pi$$es me off that they make it this difficult.
 
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Old 04-27-14, 07:11 PM
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Oops, didn't see your reply. Yep, did that test (I think) as well as a few others, no issues at all. I don't think there are any problems with the HD. It has to be some sort of junk program running (similar to that stupid indexing thing from MS) causing the clicking.

I've had HD's make noises before, but those were normally bearings or similar. Saved a few long enough to get the data off by very light oiling or the old freezer trick.
 
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Old 04-27-14, 07:16 PM
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That same software I mentioned will wipe the drive too which is what it looks like you will have to do first. But as I mentioned before you need to take the drive out first. There are other programs that will wipe the drive from a flash drive you can use with the hard drive installed. I used a program I found online for my laptop but don't remember the name and only used it once. I believe I know which Windows 7 you have the trial version from my research only works for 30 days and then it quits working. Still 30 days is 30 days and good enough for now anyway.
 
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Old 04-28-14, 10:34 AM
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Yeah, thats the one. You can actually re-set the timer 2 times for a total of 90 days. I just wanted to play with it and see how the speed and functionality is, compared to the "old" old computer.
 
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Old 04-28-14, 12:24 PM
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A wise choice Vic always good to check it out before installing it for real from disc. I suggest you first wipe the disc and the install the permanent OS(probably will have to anyway) so you don't have any conflicts. I wasn't aware that you could reset the timer twice on that version I believe they called it the Enterprise version. I never had need of it and started right away with it. It looks like everything will work well for you I am glad it is. I figure you are going to do this but once you get the permanent OS it would be best to back up things especially with a temperamental HDD.

I heard of a program called Macrium Reflect that is supposed to be good for backing up drive images. You can get the free version here Macrium Reflect FREE Edition - Information and download . I have never use it but JerseyMatt mentioned it and I remembered him saying it was a good program so I thought I would pass the advice along.
 
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Old 04-28-14, 12:41 PM
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I just wanted to play with it and see how the speed and functionality is....

I think you'll be quite pleased. The more I play with it the more I wonder why I stuck with XP so long.
 
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Old 04-28-14, 09:06 PM
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I am absolutely certain he will be pleased. I know I am happy now that I have three of my computers running Windows 7 two desktops and one Laptop.
 
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