Convinced system crash caused by Windows update

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Old 09-15-16, 10:12 PM
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Convinced system crash caused by Windows update

I have two related questions.

I had my second major system crash this year. I have a home built desktop PC. It's the typical black/blue screen and failure to boot up. I[m convinced now this is related to Windows update. Both system crashes came just after or during large Windows updates.

I have Windows 7 Home Premium. I wonder if they're using updates to sabotage computers to get people to upgrade to Windows 10. My PC is running OK now. I turned off Windows update. I had to hard reset about 6 times and finally rebooted in safe mode then normal mode.

When I was trying to recover from this crash, A DVD got locked in the DVD drive. I inserted the paper clip in the pinhole and heard this sickening sound. I must have done this with PC on! I guess I've damaged the DVD player, huh? Have not tried it yet
 
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Old 09-16-16, 12:41 AM
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I can't say that I entirely trust Microsoft as I don't and some of their policies are rather restrictive. However not all updates from Microsoft are to blame, I say not all because yes there have been some really bad ones and eventually Microsoft admitted they made a mistake. Sometimes it isn't their fault but a hackers who gets into their update system and eventually the vulnerability is fixed but Microsoft needs to be more careful. Most of the time what looks like the fault of a update is a security problem on our end.

The best thing to do is do at least a quick virus scan once a week and keep that firewall on at all times. No matter how careful you are though you can still run into problems. I certainly would run chkdsk and defragment the drive no matter what Windows says. Also an important thing to remember is that all hard drives can have errors regardless of whether they get a virus or not so it is important to back up your drive. I wouldn't worry too much about the DVD drive unless it starts to make grinding noises. If it does make grinding noises then replace it.
 
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Old 09-16-16, 05:04 AM
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I have Windows 7 Home Premium. I wonder if they're using updates to sabotage computers to get people to upgrade to Windows 10.
I don 't think that's reasonable. No need. Eventually we all will need to go to Win 10. I know of many people who are sticking with Win 7 and have had no problems.

Possible problems and/or solutions:

Make sure your memory sticks are securely seated in the MB as with all the other add on boards.

Inspect the MB for possible bad "cans".
 
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Old 09-16-16, 06:30 PM
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Windows updates have been crashing computers from day 1 & it hasn't stopped with win 10 updates either. A recent update damaged Powershell. I think that Apple is hacking the updates so we all move to Macs.
 
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Old 09-17-16, 01:57 PM
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I'm still having problems. Blue and black screens/screens suggesting Windows repair. Last night I updated motherboard and BIOS.

I already replaced my hard drive several months ago because it was grinding.

I already checked motherboard and seating of components.

When I get the home screen back up, I'm going to delete the latest Windows updates. And it's time for me to upgrade the MB too. I'd rather just slowly rebuild the computer piece by piece if that's what it comes too.

When I replace MB, everything will still be on my hard drive......correct?
 
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Old 09-17-16, 02:02 PM
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It's been awhile since I built my computer but you may run into problems. I think windows will record or "know" what MB you are installed on. You may need to call MS to get a new ID to install on a new mother board.
 
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Old 09-17-16, 02:16 PM
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Did you copy the stop message, from the BSOD? If yes, search it in Google.

When I replace MB, everything will still be on my hard drive......correct?
Yes but you won't have the drivers for the new MB installed.
 
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Old 09-17-16, 02:17 PM
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Well, your response leads to another question Norm.

I'm not sure I want to continue with Windows anyway. I don't even use MS Office anymore at home.

What about BSD, Linux, Ubuntu. I know they all have their pluses and minuses.
 
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Old 09-17-16, 02:23 PM
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Good choice. But it just seems as though everything is geared to Windows. But it all depends on how you use your computer. If it's to mainly brows the Internet or make documents for your own use then I see no reason to go back to Windows. But you'll need to learn the Linux jargon and file type hierarchy. And ad-on programs will be a bit harder to find. I plan on converting some old laps to Ubuntu or some of the others.
 
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Old 09-17-16, 05:13 PM
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bluesbreaker if I was you I think I would stick with Windows as it is much easier to use. Although of all of the Linux distributions I have found PCLinuxOs to be the easier one to use. Still though it is a completely different world and a great deal of learning needs to be done to use it. I used it for a while and I might go back to PCLinuxOS at some point but for now no.

As to switching motherboards don't even think about using the same hard drive unless you erase it and then start over with it. The drivers will not be the same for each mother board and you will have constant errors if you don't wipe the drive. I agree if you do see an error code use a search engine to find out what the code says as sometimes it will help you solve your problem immediately. If not immediately you will usually be able to find out what the problem is after some research. I certainly wouldn't give up on what you have right now.
 
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Old 09-18-16, 03:28 AM
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for PCLinuxOs being the easiest to use. I'd suggest the KDE version. It is closest to Windows in the way it is used. I wouldn't go with Ubuntu because it is from a big company and therefore less responsive to problems. When you post in a PCLinuxOs forum the answers often come from the people maintaining it.

Also PCLinuxOs is a rolling distro which means it is continually being updated so the version you have is the latest version. No having to update with a newer version every so often as you do with Windows or Ubuntu. One draw back if you have a very old computer 32 bit is no longer supported.

You can try a live USB or DVD without touching your Windows install. Built several computers and using Linux never had to install any drivers. Hard drives and such just work.
 
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Old 09-18-16, 04:31 PM
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I can't get past the black screen. It can't even reinstall Windows 7.

In fact, today the reset button would not work and I had to turn off power supply button.

I'll probably start with a new motherboard.
 
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Old 09-18-16, 10:24 PM
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I'll probably start with a new motherboard
Wait before you do check to see if you have any blown fuses on the motherboard. Some motherboards are fused and others are not. Also try swapping out the power supply from another computer before buying a new motherboard. Best to eliminate all possible problems before buying something brand new. To avoid conflict you might consider buying the same motherboard you have now from e-bay used but refurbished. Used motherboards can be just as good as new and will save you some money.
 
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Old 09-19-16, 07:49 AM
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I agree with hedgeclippers, you may very well have a bad power supply. I always switch to a known good P/S when I first start troubleshooting to eliminate that possibility. Most don't consider the P/S as being the problem since they start running when powered up, but most also don't consider that they power many areas on the M/B . And just for giggles check the CMOS battery, those little suckers can create problems and be easily overlooked.
 
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Old 09-20-16, 09:07 AM
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I would never buy a used motherboard.

I don't have another power supply to swap out. Is there a simple test I can do? I don't know to how use multi-meter.
 
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Old 09-20-16, 01:07 PM
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Look on the Net and you will find reasonably priced power supply testers. A multimeter can't do a really good job of testing a power supply. Examples:

https://www.amazon.com/HDE-Power-Tes...797HQ3R7949FGZ

PC Computer LCD 20 24 Pin 4 PSU ATX BTX ITX SATA HDD Digital Power Supply Tester | eBay

Rosewill RTK-PST - Digital LCD Power Supply Tester-Newegg.com
 
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Old 09-20-16, 03:49 PM
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I checked my MB again today for damage and tight connections. Looked normal. All cooling fans deployed too.

I also did the 'paper clip' power supply test today where you insert clip ends into pins 16 and 17 of the 24 PIN MB connector and then turn on power supply. The PSU fan did spin.

Now is this 'paper clip' test only reliable for confirming a completely dead power supply unit? Or will it also pinpoint a PSU that is failing intermittently? Because the PC and power supply turn on. It's just that one time that the reset button would not work.

Could power supply still be the culprit?

I also bought a new CMOS battery. I'll try it tonight and report back tomorrow.
 
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Old 09-20-16, 04:51 PM
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Power supplies are a lot cheaper that MB's or entire rebuilds. I didn't see where you said how old the machine is. But I would try to find a P/S to try in it or get a new P/S since it's probably about due to be replaced anyway.
 
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Old 09-21-16, 11:56 AM
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I agree with Ron53 power supplies are much cheaper than a new motherboard or entire rebuilds. I certainly would try that first rather that trying your tests. Power supplies don't last forever due to various problems, one of which is dirt in the power supply. Doesn't matter how clean you keep your house and try to keep dust away as that power supply is like a dirt magnet. If indeed the power supply is failing it is too late to clean it now. If the power supply doesn't fix things then you might as well buy a new motherboard and cpu.
 
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Old 09-21-16, 06:36 PM
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I tried new CMOS battery. It didn't help. So my $80 power supply might be failing after only 6 years?

Is this PSU 'paper clip' test inconclusive?

I already have brand new MB in refundable unopened box

I guess I'll do the PSU swap if you all think that's the next logical step.

By the way, ordered Linux Mint 18 DVD.
 
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Old 09-23-16, 09:54 AM
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Also, I don't know how convenient this is, but would you be able to try your hard drive (the one with the OS) in a different computer? I know you've encountered a number of problems with bootup and I almost have to wonder if there's a bad sector of your hard drive preventing bootup and stopping commands from reaching the motherboard?
 
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Old 09-23-16, 04:37 PM
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Thanks Ellen. I'm not able to switch out the hard drive. The hard drive was replaced earlier this year. All this happened after windows updates same as the first time.

Hey. Something just occurred to me. The power light illuminates on the PC case. But the hard drive activity does not. Let me see if I can hear the hard drive spinning tonight. I already checked connections
 
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Old 09-23-16, 06:08 PM
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The HD spinning up should be obvious. If it does not double check you connections. If the drive heads are stuck you can try the freeze technique. It might work, it has for me in the past. Wrap the drive in a plastic bag and freeze it. When it's frozen be prepared to connected it immediately. If by chance it boots up, transfer all important data to another medium during that session. You may not get another chance. This head freeze is usually for old drives but it can happen to a new one.
 
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Old 09-25-16, 08:42 AM
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Troubleshooting.......I'll reply tonight or tomorrow.
 
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Old 09-25-16, 11:30 AM
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Ok. Now I have no power indicator light on PC case in addition to no hard drive activity light. But power supply fan is running. All connections ok.
 
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Old 09-25-16, 01:10 PM
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I still would change the psu as that could be the problem all along. Of course it can be a number of things gone wrong from bad to capacitors to faulty memory slots. As for the hdd freezer trick there are reasons not to do that although I admit I did try it once myself and it never worked and that was using Norms method. Use any search engine and you will find numerous reasons why you should not use the freezer trick. Since you do have a new motherboard and I assume the cpu to go with it I suggest buying a new psu and then checking the old motherboard with it.
 
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Old 09-25-16, 02:27 PM
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So my $80 power supply might be failing after only 6 years?
Maybe, since most aren't warrantied for more than 3 or 4 years for a reason. Even power supplies that are warrantied for 7 years or longer can and do go bad. If I were working on your machine that would have been one of the first things I would have checked by swapping out the PSU with a known working one. I don't think the problem is related to Windows updates, I get the same updates with no problems.
 
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Old 09-25-16, 03:28 PM
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Last night I updated motherboard and BIOS.
I think that could cause the problem if the BIOS update failed or the wrong BIOS version was used - but I haven't messed with a BIOS for eons.
 
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Old 09-25-16, 07:21 PM
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Did a few more simple tests

1. Connected old hard drive. Still no indicator lights on PC case. Both hard drive platters spin.

2. Tried a different SATA cable to check for defect. None.

3. Removed CPU heatsink/fan. No visual damage.
 

Last edited by bluesbreaker; 09-25-16 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 09-25-16, 08:12 PM
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bluesbreaker I seriously doubt you have bent pins on your cpu as it is held down with a great deal of force by a clamp. Only by removing the clamp can you safely remove your cpu without causing damage to it. Removing it is not entirely accurate as it stays on the block and you need to push the clamp down before removing the block. Afterwards you can then lift the cpu up but caution replacing it has to be done in the same order in which it was put on the motherboard. Look for an arrow in the corner before removing the cpu and replace it the same way.

Also cpu's need thermal paste to be replaced after the cpu is replaced. The thermal paste or sometimes called gel helps the cpu stay cooler as the cpu fan runs and it is very important. Sometimes some technicians if they come to your house they will automatically replace the gel/paste as they feel it is that important during cleaning of your system. It doesn't cost very much and can be found at independent electronics supply houses or online. I found a video that explains how to install a cpu so just do the reverse of what you see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2gi0GTzfTA As you will see in the video new heat sinks do have the thermal paste but once they are lifted they should have the paste replaced with just a thin amount on the heat sink.

I see that we cross posted somewhat I am glad you were able to remove the heat sink without any problems. I will keep the video up though in case someone else might need some help.
 

Last edited by hedgeclippers; 09-25-16 at 08:38 PM. Reason: Additional comment.
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Old 09-26-16, 04:43 AM
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New update this AM, no warning just a blue screen and saying updating.
 
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Old 09-26-16, 06:29 AM
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pugsl unfortunately if you have Windows 10 and I suspect you do you don't get much if any warning. Most checks for updates are done late at night or when you first turn on your computer whichever comes later. Gone too for the most part are ways of deferring or even turning off the updates unless you have the Professional version. Even with the Professional version though you now can't really turn the updates completely off and instead for the most part must defer them. In both the Home and Pro versions you can change the time for updates to go on your system.

At the start menu look for something that looks like a gear and click on that and a box will open up. Inside the box it will say Updates, click on Updates and you will see where it says Change Active Hours and then you can change the time to at least something more practical for you. So until Microsoft changes things back to something more like Windows XP I am afraid we are all stuck with fairly long and at times rather annoying updates as we also can't pick and choose what gets updated either anymore.
 
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Old 09-26-16, 12:29 PM
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I'll report back tomorrow on my problem. I have to try the new PSU and buy some thermal paste
 
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Old 12-14-16, 04:18 PM
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I finally ordered parts to rebuild this desktop PC. I didn't want to spend the money for parts back in September. I'll keep you posted.
 
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