Considering a laptop

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  #41  
Old 02-02-17, 04:14 PM
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Well you can turn off updates I see..

I only got around to looking into your issue..

You can research this more but seems simple enough..

Windows 10 thought of everything im sure. you just need to find custom solutions..

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3085136/windows/two-ways-to-control-or-stop-windows-10-updates.html
 
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  #42  
Old 02-02-17, 04:21 PM
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Looks like that only works with W10 Home Edition using Wi-Fi - or W10 Pro Edition.
 
  #43  
Old 02-02-17, 04:32 PM
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anniversary edition instructions...


A metered connection is an Internet connection that has a data limit associated with it. Cellular data connections are set as metered by default. Wi-Fi network connections can be set to metered but aren't by default. Some apps and features in Windows will behave differently on a metered connection to help reduce your data usage.

To set a Wi-Fi network connection as metered:

Select Start  > Settings  > Network & Internet > Wi-Fi  > Manage known networks.
Select the Wi-Fi network > Properties > turn on Set as metered connection.
 
  #44  
Old 02-02-17, 04:41 PM
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Looks like that only works with W10 Home Edition using Wi-Fi - or W10 Pro Edition.
Works with wi fi on newest anniversary edition yes..

If you want to meter on an Ethernet connection you can do it by editing the registry...

I believe dane is using wi fi..
 
  #45  
Old 02-02-17, 05:32 PM
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PD, the link that lawrosa posted would make it worth while for you to buy a laptop or install a wireless adapter in your desktop. I might try it.
 
  #46  
Old 02-03-17, 04:58 AM
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Yes, I have the metered connection turned on. It still does not stop downloads and updates. It just limits them to the ones Microsoft classifies as critical. So the biggies like the anniversary update are still downloaded in the background.
 
  #47  
Old 02-03-17, 07:05 AM
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I guess that it's time to move.
 
  #48  
Old 02-03-17, 08:24 AM
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Yea but beach or mountains? It's not an easy decision.
 
  #49  
Old 02-03-17, 09:41 AM
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My wife would say beach but I have no desire to leave the mountains
 
  #50  
Old 02-03-17, 01:45 PM
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The beach beats the mountains any day of the week.
 
  #51  
Old 02-03-17, 02:08 PM
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Especially where Internet connectivity is concerned the beach wins out over the mountains. After having so much elbow room and peace and quiet it would be a change to have neighbors so close.
 
  #52  
Old 02-03-17, 04:22 PM
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What's going on with the Win10 updates, IMHO, is M$'s reaction to the fact that they have lost their stranglehold on the PC market (that is, provided you're willing to expand the definition of "PC" to include all personal computing devices). I started writing this going into detail as to why that's the case, but it got too long-winded and it was beginning to sound like an anti-M$ tirade. Which it wasn't, it was a reasoned perspective of the impact of the explosive growth of handheld devices (smartphones and tablets, a market segment that M$ has entirely missed the boat on) balanced against the fact that Windows XP was the last product that M$ managed to create which sold itself, all on its own merits.

Anyway, M$ is anxious to shore up their share of the dwindling desktop market (PC sales have declined for the last fire years running), and part of that effort entails combating the hackers. Every M$ OS from WinXP onward (to include Win10) has been successfully pirated, so there's little hope that whatever follows will be immune to the hacking. The hackers learned enough from the Win10 betas and release candidates to have a hack ready for it before it went into general release.

The problem, from M$'s perspective, is that the planned successor to Windows 10 will be subscription-based. Rent-a-Windows, if you will. And there's precious little point to instituting a subscription-based system if there are no consequences to customers failing to pay the rent. So they have to create a way to deactivate your Windows PC (or at least somehow impair its function) it you aren't paid up.

That, in a nutshell, and IMHO, is what the "unstoppable" Win10 updates are about. It's a test mule. They're incrementally building more control for themselves into your OS, which necessarily means leaving less control for you, the owner/user. With the objective of not only being able to dial back the functionality of your OS if you're late with the rent, but also of still being able to get in, even if you've hacked it and are running an unauthorized copy. In which case they probably either will un-hack it or burn it down.


M$ won't confirm or deny this is the plan but if they can force you to upDATE then they also can force you to upGRADE. Which means they could forcibly "morph" your Win10 into the (as yet nameless) subscription-only Windows. And they most assuredly will NEED (not just want) a means of doing that against your consent.


I might add that the Win10 updates ARE NOT unstoppable, it's just that M$ didn't provide you the usual means for stopping them. I've been running Win10 since within days of its general release in July of 2015 and have yet to receive a single forced update. I did it by hacking the registry, adding a Group Policy forbidding it, and by blocking my Win10 PC's access to all of M$'s update servers through firewall settings.

But this isn't a one-size-fits-all solution because some people aren't comfortable fiddling with registry settings, (IIRC) the Group Policy applet is disabled by default in Win10 Home (but also IIRC it can be enabled), and M$ has fiddled with the native Windows firewall so that it will not block access to any of those servers. So in addition to hacking the registry and creating a Group Policy rule, I had to install a 3rd-party firewall. But I always knew I was going to have to install a 3rd-party firewall anyway to block all of the servers M$'s has spying on Win10 users.

I don't know that it was necessary to take all three steps, but I'm a belt-and-suspenders kinda guy. And I wanted to be once-and-done. Alls I know is that it works. I can't imagine it wouldn't also work on the Home version, and it doesn't care whether you connect wirelessly.

But there might be less "involved" means. This article at InfoWorld.com offers advice on to block them, some of which parallels what I did. Part 2 of the article recommends installing Noel Carboni's Configure Automatic Updates tool. I haven't tried their solution because I was already fixed, so I can't speak to its effectiveness, but it might work.


However, turning off automatic updates is kinda like catching a tiger. What are you supposed to do with it once you've caught it? If you don't do any patching of security flaws, you're not much better off than if you still were running XP. So how do you prevent being exposed to the world once you've switched off the automatic patching?

Which brings me back to the subject of WSUS Offline. Download all the patches you want, independent of the computer they'll end up being installed on, transfer them to a thumb drive or portable hard drive, then install them at a time of your choosing.


Regarding the reliability of laptops, and specifically hard drives. I haven't found laptop hard drives (3.5" & 2.5") in general to be particularly problematic, but they do tend to be byte-for-byte spendier than desktop HDDs, so replacement cost is a factor. But I don't think I've ever seen a laptop (at least not since laptops went "mainstream") that didn't have an access cover specifically for both the hard drive and the RAM. If you can change the oil on your car, you can replace a hard drive. All it takes is a small phillips head screwdriver (or maybe a torqx) and three minutes.

The even better "news" is that now you can get laptops that exclusively use solid state storage ("SD" drives) instead of a hard drive with moving parts. SD drives can't fail "mechanically" because there are no moving parts. But that's not why they're using them, they're using them because the lack of moving parts means they burn much less electricity and produce much less heat (both because they're consuming less electricity and because there's no mechanical friction).

And they're faster than stink. A hard drive was always the slowest component in the PC, by a factor of >50. Because they have more moving parts than anything else in the PC; spindle motor, platters and read/write heads. And according to Professor Einstein, no moving part ever can move as fast as electricity. Not even close. Which is why some eBooks and "tablet" PCs will boot from stone cold to accepting keyboard input in a matter seconds, whereas you switch on your desktop, then go put on a pot of coffee.

But SD drives are expensive in comparison. And of more limited capacity. OTOH, dollar-for-dollar, they'll have more impact on performance than any other upgrade you could buy.

So in light of 'modern' hardware developments, I would suggest you might want to re-evaluate any aversion to laptops on account of hard drives.


That said, long-term, laptops still tend to be more of a reliability risk because so many components tend to be built into the motherboard. Which means your network card or video card (etc.) failing might be a fatal condition because it can't be replaced (unless you replace the entire MoBo). But in fairness, that's the same risk you run with bargain bin PCs from the big box companies (but that all-in-one construction is one of the reasons why they're so cheap).

On two occasions I've had friends ask me to try to revive their failed laptops and I found they'd both had failed precisely because they'd spent their short life on somebody's lap. They'd sucked lint into the cooling vents until the vents clogged. Then components started burning up. So keep your vents clean. I happen to like those laptop stands with the built-in fans because they give the laptop's intake vents a little standoff from the material of your britches. That and I once had a POS Sony laptop that the surface temperature over the battery compartment commonly got as high as 140F on. Which was seriously uncomfortable on bare legs. It probably also extends laptop live because it boost the capacity of the organic cooling system.
 
  #53  
Old 02-04-17, 05:51 AM
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Fred, give us the registry & the group policy changes. Did you block a particular port on your firewall?
 
  #54  
Old 02-04-17, 12:32 PM
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If you don't do any patching of security flaws, you're not much better off than if you still were running XP. So how do you prevent being exposed to the world once you've switched off the automatic patching?
But I thought you have in fact gone through a lot of trouble to turn off the automatic patching.
 
  #55  
Old 02-04-17, 04:13 PM
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I got my Mac laptop for a different purpose (mainly travel) but it has turned out to be wonderful compared to Win10. It notifies me that I have updates available. If I have the data available at home I can select which updates to download and install. Generally though I just take it to work to download updates. Quite painless and easy. I've never been a Mac CoolAid drinker but my opinion is swaying.
 
  #56  
Old 02-05-17, 12:33 PM
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That's good information. Good to hear from someone who has mac and also uses w10.
 
  #57  
Old 02-22-17, 11:32 AM
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The registry key I to prevent Win10 updating is:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\WindowsUpdate

Create the DWord value "NoAutoUpdate" with a value of "1" to enable (or "0" to disable).

In some versions of this hack I've seen, the key is slightly different:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Policies\WindowsUpdate\AU

In the alternate version, the DWord value is the same. The second version, the one ending in \AU, originated from a M$ Advisory on Win2K3 Server. I don't know that the latter doesn't also work but I did the former (in addition to the GPE and firewall blocks). Next time I'm in Win10, I'll do both and reboot to see if it causes any problems.

Depending on your system, it is possible neither the WindowsUpdate key nor the AU key will exist, in which case you'd need to create them before you can create the DWord value.


To disable updates by Group Policy, open the Group Policy Editor, navigate to Local Group Policy Editor> Computer Configuration> Administrative Templates> Windows Components> Windows Updates. Open the "Configure Automatic Updates" setting and change it "Disabled."

If you have Windows 10 Home and want to disable updates through group policy, the Group Policy Editor [probably] will need to be enabled first. Here's a tutorial:
How to Access the Group Policy Editor, Even in Windows Home & Settings to Try


And these are the web addresses I'm blocking through a 3rd-party firewall. The native firewall might not block them, and I'm pretty sure they can't be blocked through the Hosts file trick (%SystemRoot%\system32\drivers\etc\hosts) of resolving them to the localhost IP address because they're hard-coded into the OS:

windowsupdate.microsoft.com
update.microsoft.com
windowsupdate.com
download.windowsupdate.com
download.microsoft.com
download.windowsupdate.com
wustat.windows.com
ntservicepack.microsoft.com
test.stats.update.microsoft.com
ntservicepack.microsoft.com

These URLs came from an M$ tech paper on sites to make certain were reachable through your firewall to enable updates. They would need to be resolved to their respective IP address to use them in your firewall's iptables.

But if you block all these sites through the firewall, you'll need to either disable the firewall (or remove the blocks) or use a different PC whenever you decide you do need to download updates. I get my Windows updates by running WSUS Offline (an app I mentioned in my previous post) from a virtual Windows 7 thin client running on a Linux host.

There also are 36 websites (last I looked) identified as collecting your telemetry data for M$'s amusement and profit. Also blocking them (I do) can't help but preserve a little of your data limit.
 
  #58  
Old 02-22-17, 04:37 PM
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Thanks for that info, Fred.
 
  #59  
Old 02-22-17, 05:43 PM
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Ditto for me too Fred.

I have a small tablet that wants to update but can't due to lack of resources. But it's fine for what I need it for. Now, maybe I can turn off the updates.
 
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