SSD Cloning: I've run out of options

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Old 04-15-19, 09:16 AM
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SSD Cloning: I've run out of options

So the SSD is connected to my Vista Home Premium desktop, went to disk management and Initialized the disk, then format with NTFS and then using Macrium Reflect software I cloned my existing IDE hard disk C:\ Boot Disk to SSD (took 2.5hrs for about 65GB of data).

File explorer now shows the SSD as G:\. I shut off and change the SATA cables. In the BIOS I see the new SSD as SATAFIRM S11, 110GB. I reboot but she doesn’t boot and I knew it will happened because the SSD is labeled G:\ so I had to find a way to rename it to C:\ plus rename the old C:\ to say P:\

Could not find a way so changed the cables to boot again from the original IDE, then I go to disk management and I see now that the list shows only 3 IDE hard disks and the SSD is called Disk1, 111GB, Not initialized. I select to make new volume it says “The operation can’t be completed because the disk is not initialized”. Try to initialize and it says “The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error”.

Now the file explorer does not even shows the SSD as G:\

Is it possible that the cloning did something to the SSD?
 
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Old 04-15-19, 09:40 AM
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BTW I also boot the original IDE HD to the Safe Mode and tried to rename the volumes with command prompt but did not succeed, probably because I’m too rusty using DOS.

The SSD is shown in the command prompt as X:\
 
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Old 04-15-19, 10:27 AM
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It took me a few tries to get used to SSD cloning with Macrium .

IIRC, problem is related to Windows use of "DISK ID" to identify every hard drive in the system. If you format the disk using Windows, Windows writes a NEW unique disk-id for the new SSD drive. When Windows boots it looks for the old drive DISK ID and skips the new SSD.
IIRC when f Macrium clones to a blank disk, it copies the old disk-id to the new drive so that Windows doesn't notice.

Solution is boot to Macrium Reflect using a rescue USB.
Open Macrium Reflect, open "Other Tasks" and "Create Rescue Media" and then create a bootable Macrium USB thumbdrive.

Turn off the computer, arrange SATA cables with new SSD drive as 1st SATA drive, but leave the old drive disconnected for now.

Reboot, go to computer BIOS, enable "boot from USB".

Insert Macrium USB and Reboot and you should be able to select "WIN PE" or "Macrium Rescue" as the boot system. Macrium then walks you through choosing which drive should be configured as the main bootable drive.

Once you're up and booting, then shut down and re-connect the origional boot drive, now Windows should give the OLD drive a new name/DISK ID.
 
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Old 04-15-19, 11:20 AM
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I did all above but it looks like the cloning made one huge file on the SSD called “Setup.exe” and when I click it it tries to install Vista but it fails when it goes to format the SSD.

I also tried to re format my SSD thru the command prompt and it fails. As far as I know the SSD is now not accessible. Is it possible that the cloning process damaged the SSD?
 
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Old 04-15-19, 12:16 PM
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I have no idea how reliable any of this is but there are those (see link) who claim -

If an SSD is recognized as SATAFIRM S11, it means that the firmware information of the SSD has been rewritten.
I think by the phrase “has been rewritten” they are trying to say that the firmware has been corrupted. I don’t see how Macrium would be messing with the firmware on a cloning operation, and off the top of my head I don’t see how they could have even cloned if the SSD firmware was bad to begin with. But I may be misunderstanding some of this.

How to Fix SATAFIRM S11 SSD Error - Driver Talent Blog

(there are other discussions out there also describing SATAFIRM S11 as firmware error, sometimes linked to cheap SSD’s. But who knows if that is valid.)
 
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Old 04-15-19, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Kolias

I did all above but it looks like the cloning made one huge file on the SSD called “Setup.exe” and when I click it it tries to install Vista but it fails when it goes to format the SSD.

I also tried to re format my SSD thru the command prompt and it fails. As far as I know the SSD is now not accessible. Is it possible that the cloning process damaged the SSD?
Could be that the SSD is bad from the factory.

When cloning failed on one of my SSD's I tried:
- formatting in Windows drop down menu.
- formatting from Windows-10 disk management
- deleting partition using Macrium
- command line disk-part command

Found that DiskInternals Partition Recovery was able to clear the drive of mangled partitions.

Then tested the drive with Seagate SeaTools and it failed.
Printed out the Seagate "drive failed" screen.
Took the SSD drive back to big box electronics store for a return.
Return was simple, no questions asked, they didn't care WHY I was returning it.
Got a credit, then purchased the exact same drive (from a different store to ensure I was getting a different production batch.

Replacement drive worked fine.


Originally Posted by Kolias

I cloned my existing IDE hard disk C:\ Boot Disk to SSD (took 2.5hrs for about 65GB of data).
Hmm, that seems REALLY slow, even for SATA-1 throughput.
SATA-1 sustained rate is supposed to be around 150 MB / second.
2.5 hours is 150 minutes, times 60 seconds is 9,000 seconds total,
total throughput should be around 1.3 Terrabyte after 2.5 hours.

You might want to check for disk errors (but first create a disk-image-backup so you have all the files there. FYI, macrium DOES let you mount a disk image file as a virtual disk *(at least in Windows 10) which you can then copy files from.
 

Last edited by Hal_S; 04-15-19 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 04-15-19, 02:19 PM
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Very informative the above and thanks

I will do what I can from the above but the SSD is Kingstone in a brand new sealed box
 
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Old 04-15-19, 02:45 PM
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Maybe Kingston tech support would send you a new SSD (via RMA) if you told them the SSD is being recognized as SATAFIRM 11 – especially if that really points to firmware corruption. Couldn’t hurt to ask IMHO.
 
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Old 04-15-19, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by zoesdad
Maybe Kingston tech support would send you a new SSD (via RMA) if you told them the SSD is being recognized as SATAFIRM 11 – especially if that really points to firmware corruption. Couldn’t hurt to ask IMHO.
I got a base level SSD from Best Buy, brought it back to the store, told the customer service clear "dead drive". They refunded the purchase, I bought another one.
 
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Old 04-15-19, 07:15 PM
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Kind of difficult to remember the sequence of events on this subject to find out what went wrong but I remember after the cloning I could see the G:\ drive on file explorer and I was trying to find a way to switch the existing IDE C:\Boot Drive to another letter and change the G:\ to C:\ so I can boot with it.

I remember that I went to the device manager and right clicked on the SSD and it said after a few seconds that a new driver was installed. I don’t know why it installed a new driver.

After when I went to the command prompt the SSD was showing as X:\ and no commands could do anything on this disk. I even tried to install Vista from my Macrium Reflect Image and it fail and the same happened trying to install Vista from my original DVD. To my opinion this disk is not accessible any more.

I also noticed at the command prompt that the X:\ (that’s my SSD) had only a single file of 110GB named “Setup.exe” I wonder why the Macrium cloning made a single file instead of cloning all the directories.

Tomorrow I will go to change the SSD and my question now is. After I finish cloning the new SSD it will have a new letter like perhaps G:\. So even if I switch the wiring to have the new SSD as my first boot drive will it be able to boot? I thought a boot drive always has to be named C:\. As it was mentioned above hopefully Macrium will also clone the drive letter tomorrow

Another question I have is that the IDE HD is 250GB and the files on it take about 65GB. To my opinion I try to squeeze 250GB into a 120GB SSD. How this works?

Also when I initialize the new SSD, after I have to create a volume (all within the Vista Computer management program). The options are “Single Volume”, “Single Stripes” or “Multiple Stripes”. I choose the single volume?
 
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Old 04-16-19, 01:40 AM
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You'll want to check through the Macrium website for tips about installing under Vista.

Suggest that, before you hook up the new disk, you create a Macrium rescue USB drive, and perhaps a Macrium rescue DVD.

Helps to remember that Macrium does 3 things.

First is to create Windows-PE (Windows Preinstallation Environment) bootable media- creates a rescue USB, rescue DVD disc, or rescue partition on a hard drive.
https://knowledgebase.macrium.com/di...and_windows_pe

Second is disk CLONING. This takes the 65 GM of files from the old hard drive and copies them to another drive. (Macrium WILL default to "smart copy" or "shrink to fit" so the original drive's 65GB of files can be cloned onto any drive with more than 65 GB available. You SHOULD be able to just drop the cloned drive in without the computer noticing.

Third, is disk IMAGING. This creates a sort of mega-zip-file with all the information about the 65 GB disk, it's usually compressed, and thus takes up less than the full 65 GB.

So, If-I-Were-You, here's what I'd do.

A) Make Macrium rescue USB and DVD.

B) If your system has ~65 GB of space on an existing drive (NOT new SSD), first task is to get a disk image of the IDE drive. That's a backup of your OS, installed programs and data.

C) Now that you've got a safe copy of the IDE drive, prepare the C:\ drive for cloning, by doing some aggressive housekeeping.

-check the disk for logical errors, Files, C:\, properties, error checking (or something like that)

- In my experience, "Windows Error Checking" MISSES some disk errors, so next step is to run a dos level chkdsk /f/r/x (Fix, Recover, eXit) This restarts the computer and causes the basic operating system to check if the drive has any problems with logical structure or disk reading. You have to reboot because this lets MS-Dos check the files which Windows is usually running. -It's the computer equivalent of turning off a car engine before checking the coolant, oil, air filer and spark plugs.-

- run a disk cleanup. This can be Vista "disk cleanup".
However, I ALSO run Pirifor CCleaner to clear other file caches, delete temporary files, and to fix bad registry errors.

- defrag the disk

The reason for doing all of these steps is to avoid copying unneeded files, to make sure the files that ARE copied do not have errors.

D) Now that you've done "housekeeping" on the drive,
- turn off the computer,
- hookup the new SSD.
- Start and do basic disk initilization., (single disk, NOT striped) and start Macrium to clone the C:\ drive to the new SSD.
 
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Old 04-16-19, 08:11 AM
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Hal_S I do have a Macrium rescue dvd with the PE and have use it in the past a few times. I also have an image of all my OS’s.

Soon I will go to get a new SSD and what I’m not sure is if my new cloning has lets say a G:\ label how to change that to C:\ ?

Thats where I got stuck yesterday and screw up things, I tried to do it through the DOS prompt, the Device mgr and disk mgr but I was not able.
 
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Old 04-16-19, 09:03 AM
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kolias –

The drive letters are assigned by Windows when you boot up. They are dynamic. If you clone the HDD which currently is your C: drive, and then disconnect that HDD and put the new SSD in its place, the new SSD should then be assigned C: upon boot up. You shouldn’t have to mess with drive letters at all.

You should note now how your drive letters are assigned without your SSD connected. You will probably see that the next available letter for a disk drive would be G:/. That’s why you are seeing G: when you add the SSD to the system and connect it to a spare SATA port.

I think one of the things which is complicating the cloning process is that you are cloning to a smaller drive. If you were cloning to an SSD which was equal to or larger than your current HDD, you could use the sector by sector option which should produce an SDD which is exactly the same as your HDD. I never tried cloning to a smaller drive – but I think as has been pointed out it still should work.

Why do you say that the drive you are cloning is an IDE drive? I thought it was a SATA drive connected to SATA port 1. Don’t you have one SATA drive and two IDE drives?

My guess would be your current Windows assignments are:

HDD connected to SATA port 1 = C:\
Optical drive = D:\
First IDE Disk = E:\
Second IDE disk = F:\

(but it seems like if you add the SSD to SATA port 2, you would think it would be assigned E: and then the IDE's F: and G: - but I think it depends on the BIOS)
 
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Old 04-16-19, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by zoesdad
I think one of the things which is complicating the cloning process is that you are cloning to a smaller drive. If you were cloning to an SSD which was equal to or larger than your current HDD, you could use the sector by sector option which should produce an SDD which is exactly the same as your HDD. I never tried cloning to a smaller drive – but I think as has been pointed out it still should work.
Eh, didn't really complicate things for me.

Macrium (at least version I used) automatically defaults to "Intelligent Sector Copy" which only copies the sectors with data.
Macrium also defaults to "shrink to fit" so that, a 250 GB partition with 65 GM of files will fit onto a 120 GB SSD.

You can go to "advanced settings" and enable "Forensic Sector Copy", which does a sector-by-sector copy of all sectors on that partition to the new partition.
 
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Old 04-16-19, 11:10 AM
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Eh, didn't really complicate things for me.
You misunderstand. I mean complicating for the SW. The simplest path that will perform the function adequately is the best. In other words, the cyclomatic complexity factor in the associated code is bound to be minimized with a straight copy from one disk to the other.
 
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Old 04-16-19, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by zoesdad
Originally Posted by Hal
Eh, didn't really complicate things for me.
You misunderstand. I mean complicating for the SW. The simplest path that will perform the function adequately is the best. In other words, the cyclomatic complexity factor in the associated code is bound to be minimized with a straight copy from one disk to the other.
Ah yes, "Origins of Order", Kauffman-Levin, "Node-Konnection" or NK theory of complexity.

That's why I suggested "aggressive housekeeping" BEFORE cloning the drive, especially for an older spinner drive that may have bad sectors, OR faintly reading sectors.
It avoids the situation where there's an error on the disk, and then disk, the controller and the OS are all trying to fix it in nested cycles- leading to the disk imaging to time out and fail.

Most hard drives have SMART reporting, a firmware layer where the drive itself is going check for bad or weak sectors, and then "re-assign" that address to a spare sector..
Then there's the BIOS/ controller, which sometimes deals with bad sectors (think RAID arrays) by keeping track of bad sectors.
Then there's the MS file system, which IIRC creates its own hidden file composed of all the known bad-sectors on the disk.

Problem is, if you're cloning an old drive with some bad or faint sectors, you only have so long before the cloning program times out while waiting for the SMART-disk sector reassignment, the HDD controller error table, and the MS/NTFS file system to deal with data that won't read.
 
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Old 04-16-19, 01:29 PM
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Sorry for the confusion zoesdad, I have 3 WD IDE hard disks but the boot HDD is a newer one and has a SATA date cable connector where the other 2 hard disks are older and use a ribbon data connector. The boot HDD is currently connected to SATA1 port on the motherboard. So the configuration is:

HDD connected to SATA port 1 = C:\
One older HDD is D:\
One older HDD is E:\
Optical Drive is F:\
And the new SSD was G:\

On the motherboard I have 6 SATA ports (1-6). Ports 1,2,5,6 are marked RED color and ports 3 & 4 are BLACK. As per users guide the black ports are for RAID (I think) which I don’t use so eventually and hopefully the new SSD I will connect to port 1 and the other HDD with the SATA data connector to port 5 (port 3 is more difficult to access due to other hardware around.

I got the new SSD and now I work on the cloning. I ask the store to format (for free) the new SSD just to make sure I will not have the same problem. They also verified the one I returned and they confirmed it is useless! Guess I had to be the lucky one to get a bad SSD.

When ready I will post the news
 
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Old 04-16-19, 07:44 PM
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Finally success guys.

I removed all hard disks except for the SSD and using Macrium Reflect rescue DVD I restored a Vista image I had into the SSD. Took 1.04 minutes for the restore and then removed the DVD, reboot and voila I had Vista working. I decided not to use the Cloning because of my bad experience yesterday

Then I stopped the PC, connected all hard disks and reboot again. Now I have all hard disks working however although the desktop is not connected to the Internet I got a message Vista was installing 2 drivers for the SSD and the SATA HDD and I had to reboot again with no problem. I don’t know from where Vista got the new drivers

The BIOS shows the SSD as “Kingstone SA400S371” and its true the system gave the SSD the same label as I had on the SATA HDD

Another surprise is that Vista is not activated now. I had used the same image a couple of months ago to restore Vista and it remained activated after the restore. Perhaps now because of the new SSD? I don’t know.

I was able through the Disk Mgr to re arrange all the hard disks labels as I wanted

My thanks to all for your great help.
 
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Old 04-17-19, 08:08 AM
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Great!!!Good news!

Perhaps now because of the new SSD? I don’t know.
I think you are correct. Windows is now installed on a new disk with a different disk serial number and Windows recognizes that. I think you would probably have to call them to re-activate, but I’m not sure. Vista is old but everything you are doing is legitimate.

It’s only when you change the motherboard is that considered a new computer. You are just re-installing Windows on the same computer and that’s fine.


( I changed my HDD a few years ago but for the life of me I can't remember if I had to re-activate. My memory hardly works anymore - lol. But I probably did have to re-activate. Windows 7 ... forgot to say I also did it the way you did, by recovering a saved image onto the new disk drive. I also had some kind of problem with cloning.)
 

Last edited by zoesdad; 04-17-19 at 08:32 AM.
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Old 04-17-19, 09:13 AM
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Activation is done, I tried to put the numbers I had from my last activation and it didn’t work then as I was double checking the numbers a window came up and said “Activate now”, I click on it and after a few seconds it said “Windows is Activated”

Then I made a new image for the SSD so now I have 2 images, one with the original HDD and one with the new SSD.

But I will search to find a Windows 7 and give it a try

BTW the SSD did improve the speed of my system by a lot and I’m very happy I did all this work
 
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Old 04-17-19, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kolias

BTW the SSD did improve the speed of my system by a lot and I’m very happy I did all this work
Glad to hear


A) 10 year old desktop computer
+
B) more ram
+
C) SSD drive

=
D) an effectively new computer.

Originally Posted by kolias

But I will search to find a Windows 7 and give it a try
Quick reminder - you generally get, eh, ~2 weeks to try out unregistered Windows-7
(or Windows-10) installations.

Sooooo - since you've got an image of Vista on the IDE drive,
I'd suggest "test driving" Windows 7 on the IDE drive (and make an image)
and then "test driving" Windows 10, on the IDE drive (and make an image).

Then decide which one do you like.
Get a Windows key from a computer scrapper on eBay (~$10) and activate the version you like.
 

Last edited by Hal_S; 04-17-19 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 04-17-19, 01:02 PM
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Good suggestions Hal_S but not Windows 10, have it in one of my laptops is enough lol.

One of these days I will try Windows 7 but you never know, when the time comes I may go for the 10.
 
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Old 04-17-19, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kolias

not Windows 10, have it in one of my laptops
Well-ya-know...
clone that Win-10 laptop drive to that IDE drive,
or
image that Win-10 laptop drive and then write the image to the IDE drive,

boot the desktop from the IDE clone/image drive, and see whether Windows 10 runs well on that desktop.
 
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Old 11-18-19, 09:41 AM
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Yes, it seems a cloning issue with your problem.

"The request could not be performed because of an I/O device error”. If everything fails you need to fresh install it and clone the files and i am attaching a pic here

 
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