Phone line network
#1
03-19-02, 01:25 PM
Phone line network
I have a friend who has 4 computers he wants to network in his home. All are pentiums running at least Windows 98. He wants to use the existing phone lines in his house. I am trying to talk him into running cat5, but he doesn't want the trouble. Anybody ever run across this set up? And if so what are your thoughts? The literature claims 10 Mbps.
#2
03-19-02, 02:40 PM
You can use a phoneline network with no problem. The ouput won't be 10Mb, but it will be fast enough for most applications. I've only installed Dlink systems, and it worked perfectly. Just make sure all of the computers have access to the same phone line. Also make sure that you don't have a DSL line hooked up on the same phone line. The two don't work together.
I prefer a dedicated Ethernet network, but that's just me.
A wireless system also works very well, I've had good luck with Lynksys systems. If you don't have a broadband connection then all you need is 4 PCI cards. If you do, then you can share that using a wireless router.
I prefer a dedicated Ethernet network, but that's just me.
A wireless system also works very well, I've had good luck with Lynksys systems. If you don't have a broadband connection then all you need is 4 PCI cards. If you do, then you can share that using a wireless router.
#3
03-19-02, 05:03 PM
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Cat 5
I ran into something that did not work at all, using Cat 5. I have ADSL, and tried to run Cat 5 from the source, to the box beside my desk.
Off this box I run, with the DSL filters, 1 Alcatel Modem, Answering Machine w/ phone, Caller ID, & FAX.
Using the Cat 5 cable I do get a dial tone but no ring in, no internet, no Answering Machine, Caller ID works, no FAX
Hooking back up with the regular phone line everthing is working fine. Are the small wires in the Cat 5 just to small to carry the signals for the main supply line?
Then because Cat 5 has the RJ45 end with 8 pins it is only for use as an Ethernet networking use.
Maybe I am wrong but I could swear, I read somewhere that you should use larger wire, for your main feed line, and the smaller wire would be less efficent.
Off this box I run, with the DSL filters, 1 Alcatel Modem, Answering Machine w/ phone, Caller ID, & FAX.
Using the Cat 5 cable I do get a dial tone but no ring in, no internet, no Answering Machine, Caller ID works, no FAX
Hooking back up with the regular phone line everthing is working fine. Are the small wires in the Cat 5 just to small to carry the signals for the main supply line?
Then because Cat 5 has the RJ45 end with 8 pins it is only for use as an Ethernet networking use.
Maybe I am wrong but I could swear, I read somewhere that you should use larger wire, for your main feed line, and the smaller wire would be less efficent.
#4
03-20-02, 04:47 AM
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#5
03-20-02, 08:35 AM
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I'm lost in inner space
Hi abNORMal
What I started out to do was to replace the old 4 wire telephone cable cable with CAT 5. Thinking that hey this stuff has to be faster than the old 4 wire line telephone cable.
I took the green wire cat5 and hooked to red wire wall socket, and the white/green cat5 and hooked it to the green wire in the wall socket.
I have a signal through there because I got a dial tone and the Caller ID works. What I don't have is the Internet, an answering Machine, & the phone won't ring in & the fax won't work .
Is this tiny wire in the Cat 5 big enough to work the Phone, answering Mach, Fax ect. Or is made to be used in networking only?
I don't think I know what I'm talking about. Let's try this. There are 8 wires in my cat5 line. 4 twisted pair. let's cut off 4 wires or 2 twisted pair and take the 4 remaining wires 2 twisted pairs. Now can we install RJ11 jacks and run the entire phone system in the house? Why does the Phone company use a flat line with 4 straight wires to wire the house? There I think I understand it somewhat better now.
What I started out to do was to replace the old 4 wire telephone cable cable with CAT 5. Thinking that hey this stuff has to be faster than the old 4 wire line telephone cable.
I took the green wire cat5 and hooked to red wire wall socket, and the white/green cat5 and hooked it to the green wire in the wall socket.
I have a signal through there because I got a dial tone and the Caller ID works. What I don't have is the Internet, an answering Machine, & the phone won't ring in & the fax won't work .
Is this tiny wire in the Cat 5 big enough to work the Phone, answering Mach, Fax ect. Or is made to be used in networking only?
I don't think I know what I'm talking about. Let's try this. There are 8 wires in my cat5 line. 4 twisted pair. let's cut off 4 wires or 2 twisted pair and take the 4 remaining wires 2 twisted pairs. Now can we install RJ11 jacks and run the entire phone system in the house? Why does the Phone company use a flat line with 4 straight wires to wire the house? There I think I understand it somewhat better now.
#6
03-20-02, 12:24 PM
Router
Why are you not using a router or a hub at the very least? This type of setup you are wanting to do is going to be painfully slow! Get a four or more channel router and hook up the network this way. The cost is minimal and the rewards are tremendous!
#7
03-20-02, 01:13 PM
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See what I mean I don't understand it
Let me start from the wall phone jack. 1 special flat wire to alcatel ADSL Modem. Cat 5 4" ethernet wire to Linksys 4 way router. Custom fit Cat 5 cables to 4 Computers.
A very fast and neatly wired rig.
Now let's go back to the telephone wall box.
I tried to use Cat 5 to replace the Standard 4 wire telephone line that everyone has , with 2 wires of a Cat 5 cable and it just won't work. So at this point I must conclude that Cat 5 can only be used for Ethernet wiring networking the linksys to Computers.
Is smaller better to your phone outlet? Or should I use what the telephone Co. uses to wire the inside of a house?
Unless someone can tell me that I did something wrong by using Cat 5 in place of plain old telephone line.
Marturo
A very fast and neatly wired rig.
Now let's go back to the telephone wall box.
I tried to use Cat 5 to replace the Standard 4 wire telephone line that everyone has , with 2 wires of a Cat 5 cable and it just won't work. So at this point I must conclude that Cat 5 can only be used for Ethernet wiring networking the linksys to Computers.
Is smaller better to your phone outlet? Or should I use what the telephone Co. uses to wire the inside of a house?
Unless someone can tell me that I did something wrong by using Cat 5 in place of plain old telephone line.
Marturo
Last edited by marturo; 03-20-02 at 01:47 PM.
#8
03-20-02, 05:09 PM
Lines
I get it now, I too have DSL and use just the standard wire that came with any telephone etc. except for I have two lines so use all four wires. No need to do what you are doing the regular line will work fine. If you must, think of xmas for wiring regular phone wire… red and green is one pair, black and yellow is the second pair. If you only have a single phone line use red and green in the center two contacts. If you have two lines in then use R & G on the right and B & Y on the left.
#9
03-20-02, 06:17 PM
CAT5 Confusion
Marturo,
I can assure you that CAT5 can be used for phone and network cabling. I have 2 phone lines coming into our house, and have 6 jack locations--all using CAT5. I also have 3 computers networked using a hub, and sharing a satellite-based broadband internet connection (also using CAT5). I saw your issue on the "Wired Home" thread as well, and I hope we can help solve your problem. I have a few questions.
How did you make your connection from the Phone Co. box to your CAT5 cable? Did you connect it directly at the "Customer access" area of the box where you see the phone company's red and green cables?
It doesn't really matter which wire pairs you use, but by accepted convention, the blue pair usually used for phone line1, the orange pair for line 2 (if there is one), the green pair for line 3 and the brown pair for line 4.
There is an issue for polarity--red is the "ring" and green is the "tip" polarity for line 1. Make sure you maintain consistency all the way to the jack.
Have you tried another wire pair to see if you get the same result? It could be that you have a bad cable with some damage from a kink, nick or other fault.
Is this the only phone jack you have in your house? How do you have your others connected if you have more than one?
I hope we can get you set up the way you want...
LewMac
I can assure you that CAT5 can be used for phone and network cabling. I have 2 phone lines coming into our house, and have 6 jack locations--all using CAT5. I also have 3 computers networked using a hub, and sharing a satellite-based broadband internet connection (also using CAT5). I saw your issue on the "Wired Home" thread as well, and I hope we can help solve your problem. I have a few questions.
How did you make your connection from the Phone Co. box to your CAT5 cable? Did you connect it directly at the "Customer access" area of the box where you see the phone company's red and green cables?
It doesn't really matter which wire pairs you use, but by accepted convention, the blue pair usually used for phone line1, the orange pair for line 2 (if there is one), the green pair for line 3 and the brown pair for line 4.
There is an issue for polarity--red is the "ring" and green is the "tip" polarity for line 1. Make sure you maintain consistency all the way to the jack.
Have you tried another wire pair to see if you get the same result? It could be that you have a bad cable with some damage from a kink, nick or other fault.
Is this the only phone jack you have in your house? How do you have your others connected if you have more than one?
I hope we can get you set up the way you want...
LewMac
#10
03-20-02, 10:21 PM
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Line setup
Hi LewMac
Here's how my son did it to the best of my knowledge. He has the red and green coming into the house from the telephone Co. box to a contact strip. Black plastic with screws and metal strips that act as a connector board.
It is really a mess that I need to fix, so that I can have the cordless phone in the kitchen. Then I need to install a box in by my desk so that I can run the Modem, Fax with phone, answering Machine & caller ID.
Should I get rid of the junction block that's what it is, he put right inside the basement from the outside box.
Do I need to run one Cat 5 cable to the kitchen & one to my desk? If I read you right I should take the Cat 5 right into the outside box and hook it to the red & green in that box.
The reason we have so much Cat 5 is a friend of my son gave it to him as a leftover from a job he did in networking a large church.
I have ADSL and would like to get rid of the mess, my son meantwell he just does'nt know what he is doing when it comes to wiring inside telephone line.
I bought a stripper/crimper tool at Lowe's in order to cut down the long Cat 5 cables to all the other Computers.
I am ready to start from the outside box and use the Cat5 the right way. The blue cover says 0038 FT SUPERIOR ESSEX 4 PR 24 MARATHON (UL) C(UL) CMR/MPR VERIFIED (UL) CAT 5E 138 1 H
Now all the other Cat 5 cables were ones I got with hardware or bought allready made up. I left one end on and followed the instructions on how to install the RJ45 end.
Is it better to use cat 5 cable for phone, Fax, and Modem than the 4 wire standard phone line? Will it improve the speed of ADSL and clear the phone voice and sound?
I just don't understand this type of wiring and how smaller would be better. In automotive wiring the biger the wire the more efective everything runs.
However I do understand we are dealing with more than voltage here. What do I need to buy at Lowes to do this job right LewMac? Iam ready to start from the outside box and work my way into the two rooms.
And I do thank you for all your help. I want to do a good job.
Marturo
Here's how my son did it to the best of my knowledge. He has the red and green coming into the house from the telephone Co. box to a contact strip. Black plastic with screws and metal strips that act as a connector board.
It is really a mess that I need to fix, so that I can have the cordless phone in the kitchen. Then I need to install a box in by my desk so that I can run the Modem, Fax with phone, answering Machine & caller ID.
Should I get rid of the junction block that's what it is, he put right inside the basement from the outside box.
Do I need to run one Cat 5 cable to the kitchen & one to my desk? If I read you right I should take the Cat 5 right into the outside box and hook it to the red & green in that box.
The reason we have so much Cat 5 is a friend of my son gave it to him as a leftover from a job he did in networking a large church.
I have ADSL and would like to get rid of the mess, my son meantwell he just does'nt know what he is doing when it comes to wiring inside telephone line.
I bought a stripper/crimper tool at Lowe's in order to cut down the long Cat 5 cables to all the other Computers.
I am ready to start from the outside box and use the Cat5 the right way. The blue cover says 0038 FT SUPERIOR ESSEX 4 PR 24 MARATHON (UL) C(UL) CMR/MPR VERIFIED (UL) CAT 5E 138 1 H
Now all the other Cat 5 cables were ones I got with hardware or bought allready made up. I left one end on and followed the instructions on how to install the RJ45 end.
Is it better to use cat 5 cable for phone, Fax, and Modem than the 4 wire standard phone line? Will it improve the speed of ADSL and clear the phone voice and sound?
I just don't understand this type of wiring and how smaller would be better. In automotive wiring the biger the wire the more efective everything runs.
However I do understand we are dealing with more than voltage here. What do I need to buy at Lowes to do this job right LewMac? Iam ready to start from the outside box and work my way into the two rooms.
And I do thank you for all your help. I want to do a good job.
Marturo
#11
03-21-02, 05:25 AM
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Marturo:
LewMac is correct. Cat5 will work fine for phones. The phone uses the white/blue-blue pair, which is not used by an Ethernet network. Part of the signal "strength" comes from the twisting of the pairs, reducing interference from the other pairs (crosstalk) and through inductance, keeping the signal strong.
Depending on the 568 standard you use:
an ethernet nertwork uses only 2 pairs of wires, but they must be a pair. That is, they must be the same color match - white/orange-orange, for example. You can't use the the orange and green, for example, as a pair. They must use pins 1,2,3 and 6, on the jacks and cable ends.
Notice though, that the blue pair is always on pins 4 and 5 and are the same in both standards. These are used for the phone line, so in a phone line network, these are pins that you should use on your cables and jacks.
LewMac is correct. Cat5 will work fine for phones. The phone uses the white/blue-blue pair, which is not used by an Ethernet network. Part of the signal "strength" comes from the twisting of the pairs, reducing interference from the other pairs (crosstalk) and through inductance, keeping the signal strong.
Depending on the 568 standard you use:
an ethernet nertwork uses only 2 pairs of wires, but they must be a pair. That is, they must be the same color match - white/orange-orange, for example. You can't use the the orange and green, for example, as a pair. They must use pins 1,2,3 and 6, on the jacks and cable ends.
Notice though, that the blue pair is always on pins 4 and 5 and are the same in both standards. These are used for the phone line, so in a phone line network, these are pins that you should use on your cables and jacks.
#12
03-21-02, 09:13 AM
All Wired Up
Marturo,
Here's what I would recommend. It sounds like you have a binding post connector in you basement where your phone line comes in from the outside. You can keep this setup as an acceptable distribution point for all your phone lines. I would, however, go ahead and use Cat 5 from the phone co. box to the connector. Since you have only one line incoming, connect the blue/white wire to the red terminal and the white/blue to the green.
At the connector block in the basement, do the same--blue/white to the red post, and white/blue to the green post.
Now, any cable runs you want to make for phone connections in your house will originate from this point. Again, using the Cat 5 cable, connect the blue/white and white/blue pairs to red and green, respectively and run the cable to your jack locations.
At the jack locations, I would recommend that you use a good quality connector to terminate your connections. I use Leviton's "Quick Port" system, consisting of a connector and a faceplate that can be configured for a single or multiple connections. You can get these in the electrical section of Home Depot for about $5 for the connector and $1-2 for the faceplate. The connector comes with a little plastic "punchdown" tool that you use to push the cable down into the slot that displaces the insulation and connects to the wire. The connector is labeled to help you make the connections to the correct locations. As noted in the previous post, you can use either the 568A or 568B scheme. I generally use the 568A for both my voice and data so I won't get confused. Go ahead and terminate all the wires at the connector, even if you aren't planning to use them.
The connector snaps into the faceplate, and you attach the faceplate just like a regular phone or electrical outlet. The connector accepts both 8-position RJ45-type or 4-position RJ11-type connectors.
This should take care of you and get you back up and running. Again, the only problems you might encounter is if your cable is damaged in some way.
Here's a link to the Leviton web site where you can read up on all this info. Specifically, check out chapter 2 of the Wiring Strategies guide and I think it will all make better sense to you.
http://www.levitontelcom.com/learning/wiring.asp
Good luck, and please let me know if I can clarify anything for you.
By the way, where in the NC mountains are you?
LewMac
Here's what I would recommend. It sounds like you have a binding post connector in you basement where your phone line comes in from the outside. You can keep this setup as an acceptable distribution point for all your phone lines. I would, however, go ahead and use Cat 5 from the phone co. box to the connector. Since you have only one line incoming, connect the blue/white wire to the red terminal and the white/blue to the green.
At the connector block in the basement, do the same--blue/white to the red post, and white/blue to the green post.
Now, any cable runs you want to make for phone connections in your house will originate from this point. Again, using the Cat 5 cable, connect the blue/white and white/blue pairs to red and green, respectively and run the cable to your jack locations.
At the jack locations, I would recommend that you use a good quality connector to terminate your connections. I use Leviton's "Quick Port" system, consisting of a connector and a faceplate that can be configured for a single or multiple connections. You can get these in the electrical section of Home Depot for about $5 for the connector and $1-2 for the faceplate. The connector comes with a little plastic "punchdown" tool that you use to push the cable down into the slot that displaces the insulation and connects to the wire. The connector is labeled to help you make the connections to the correct locations. As noted in the previous post, you can use either the 568A or 568B scheme. I generally use the 568A for both my voice and data so I won't get confused. Go ahead and terminate all the wires at the connector, even if you aren't planning to use them.
The connector snaps into the faceplate, and you attach the faceplate just like a regular phone or electrical outlet. The connector accepts both 8-position RJ45-type or 4-position RJ11-type connectors.
This should take care of you and get you back up and running. Again, the only problems you might encounter is if your cable is damaged in some way.
Here's a link to the Leviton web site where you can read up on all this info. Specifically, check out chapter 2 of the Wiring Strategies guide and I think it will all make better sense to you.
http://www.levitontelcom.com/learning/wiring.asp
Good luck, and please let me know if I can clarify anything for you.
By the way, where in the NC mountains are you?
LewMac
#13
03-21-02, 02:57 PM
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Got it now
Thank you all for your help 
I believe that I have finely got it. We have a Lowe's and Home Depot and one of them should have all I need. LewMac I live just outside of Hendersonville South of Asheville. You know I have had the ADSL now for 4 months, and I think in some ways it has Cable beat. My Cable Co is Mediacom & used @HOME for our IP. At time the Cable was realy quick, & at other times it was as slow as a dial up. With the ADSL it is the same speed 24 Hrs a day. Although only 4 years ago Bell South charged $140.00 per month as opposed to $40.00 a month now. Bell South came out with a new plan just last week, for $10.00 more a month you can have I think 4 or 5 Computers now. Since they allow networking without support I would guess this means for a $90.00 set up fee BS will wire you up with a router or a modem for each Com. I think I will suffer along with the Linksys LOL.
Thanks again Guys for the help.
Marturo
I believe that I have finely got it. We have a Lowe's and Home Depot and one of them should have all I need. LewMac I live just outside of Hendersonville South of Asheville. You know I have had the ADSL now for 4 months, and I think in some ways it has Cable beat. My Cable Co is Mediacom & used @HOME for our IP. At time the Cable was realy quick, & at other times it was as slow as a dial up. With the ADSL it is the same speed 24 Hrs a day. Although only 4 years ago Bell South charged $140.00 per month as opposed to $40.00 a month now. Bell South came out with a new plan just last week, for $10.00 more a month you can have I think 4 or 5 Computers now. Since they allow networking without support I would guess this means for a $90.00 set up fee BS will wire you up with a router or a modem for each Com. I think I will suffer along with the Linksys LOL.
Thanks again Guys for the help.
Marturo
#14
03-21-02, 05:43 PM
Cool
Marturo,
Hey, you're just up the road from me--I'm in Greenville, SC. I could almost stop by and check it out myself. My wife is into quilting, and has wanted to go to Georgia Bonesteel's quilt shop in downtown Hendersonville. Hope your efforts are successful!
LewMac
Hey, you're just up the road from me--I'm in Greenville, SC. I could almost stop by and check it out myself. My wife is into quilting, and has wanted to go to Georgia Bonesteel's quilt shop in downtown Hendersonville. Hope your efforts are successful!
LewMac
