deck screws vs. 10D nails


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Old 08-09-02, 06:10 AM
nlombs
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Question deck screws vs. 10D nails

I used 3" decking screws instead of 10D nails to hang my joist hangers and toe in the joists to the header. I thought deck screws would be 1 1/2 times stronger than 10D nails. Where can I find information about this?
 
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Old 08-09-02, 07:24 AM
braggs
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Try this website, www.itwbuildex.com/dec-king.htm
They have pull out strengths on it.
 
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Old 08-10-02, 03:29 PM
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One thing to think about - in placing joist hangers the shear strength of the fastener is of more importance than pull-out resistance...
 
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Old 08-10-02, 04:05 PM
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deck screws vs. 10D nails

nlombs,

George is right, it doesn't take much at all to break the head off a screw. Besides, it seems to be highly unusual to use screws for hangers, costs more and is more time consuming to install.

What's prompting you to think of using screws, it's not even recommended by Simpson to use them on hangers?

Just a thought
 
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Old 08-11-02, 08:51 PM
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I just did a 20 x 14 deck using the simpson joist hangers and their brand nails. Eventually I switched to screws. The screws held so much better. especially when a warped joist had to be twisted into place. I used 2" SS bugle heads for the 45 connections and 1-1/4 for the perpendicular-to-rim-joist connection. FWIW.

Aaron
 
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Old 08-12-02, 06:07 AM
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I've seen folks put them up with dry wall screws before but I always use nails. You just aren't going to shear a nail like a screw. What I see that gets me most though is someone just putting 3 or 4 nails in a joist hanger. Maybe good enough but we put a nail where ever there's a hole if possible... if you worked with my dad it's just the way you did it.
Dennis
 
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Old 08-16-02, 07:49 AM
RickG
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Always use spiral galvanized nails, the biggest and longest that will fit with the dimension of the lumber and it won't come out.

Don't use screws, they will break like everyone else is saying.
 
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Old 08-18-02, 11:11 PM
Marshall Buttrey
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Okay, since screws are easier to break, why do I want to use screws to connect the decking material to the joists?

Marshall Buttrey
 
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Old 08-18-02, 11:30 PM
glyons
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Marshall,

I believe the reason that screws are the preferred method of securing decking is because the pull out strength of screws are much higher than that of nails. Usually on decking, except in the case of extreme cupping or warping, the forces on the fastners are going to be vertical instead of horizontal, and typically with much less overall force than the weight of the decking, furniture, and people pushing down on joist hangers. Since the nails are horizontal in the joist hangers, and the entire weight of the deck presses downwards, head strength becomes a much more critical factor than pull out value (usually the joists aren't going to pull OUT from the house....they're going to drop down).

My initial reaction when I first built my deck is that I too wanted to use screws to secure the joist hangers. However, after talking to several knowledgable and experienced friends, I finally understood why nails are the better choice for this application.
 
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Old 08-18-02, 11:38 PM
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deck screws vs. 10D nails

Marshall Buttrey,

Screws are meant for holding power but unless you are getting high grade tempered screws, they lack shear capabilities, thus they break usually at the head where you don't want it to break.

Heavy loads placed on a screw not designed for load will break easily. Joist hangers are meant to hold your floor system in place when you need hangers. Improper fasteners between the hanger and rim joist for example would be foolish. Nails are designed for holding power but more importantly, they have the properties to resist lateral shifts and thus their shear capability is extremely low.

If you have ever hit a nail with lateral force and done the same with a screw, you would know what breaks first. Nails will usually bend not break off at the point of the bend. Traditional screws will break at point of the bend or higher.

Use screws for holding and use nails for areas requiring shear strength. On essence, follow manufacturers recommendations.

Arron j used screws for his hangers because he said the wood was warped. If it was that warped, I wouldn't have used the wood. Joist hangers are best installed first using a block of wood as a guide and placed onto the rim or ledger. Then you slip the joist into the hanger. Nothing more than nails should be used. Each fastener has a special purpose, sometimes we all try to fool ourselves on what we think is better.
]

Hope this helps!
 
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Old 08-19-02, 09:02 AM
Marshall Buttrey
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Thanks to both of you for your answers.

I asked the wrong question, but both responses are very helpful.

My questions really are: Why are screws better for decking? Do they prevent cupping, or is there something else I need to do to prevent it?

Thanks again,

Marshall
 
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Old 08-19-02, 09:16 AM
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deck screws vs. 10D nails

Marshall,

As glyons mentioned, screws can assist in minimizing the extreme cupping or warping. When it comes to this however, it is important to lay your deck boards correctly. Cupping is a natural thing and you can only minimize it. When dealing with natural woods or PT wood, this can be common when exposed to changing climates. Methods to reduce this are the types of fasteners used, how it was installed and proper deck maintenance.

Alternative decking materials that do alter in shape or appearance are high end wood composites or vinyls. Cost can be high but the maintenance issue is nil and the appearance will last for years beyond natural woods.

Hope this helps.
 
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Old 09-03-02, 05:53 AM
Lazy
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Where do you use the special hanger nails they sell?
 
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Old 09-03-02, 06:14 AM
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Nails used on hangers

Lazy,

I have attached a link to where the nails are used and you can review all the other items within this site as well.

http://www.wellconnectedhouse.com/about_conn.html

Hope this helps!
 
 

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