What comes first, the deck or the roof?


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Old 02-12-10, 05:14 AM
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What comes first, the deck or the roof?

So, I know that some people have built a cover for their patio and later decide they want a deck under it (instead of having to step down - deck then must come later. In looking at all my resources it seems that most drawings show building all the roof support posts off of the deck. So my first question is:

1. Which system is stronger/better? I am leaning towards the latter (building the deck 1st), but am wondering if most builders use a Simpson conn. that connects the 4x4 post to the double rim joist. Would it be the BC4 or BC8 or BCS?
I do not want to put my 4x4s onto the porch flooring (will cut around the posts).

I have 1 more question. I have changed from my original design from a shed roof to a gable roof which will a- join another gable roof. I have never seen two roofs connect in this way (well once) but I have my reasons for doing it. I will need a third connecting tapering shed roof between the two to be a sort of valley. Has anyone done this?

One last thing. Do most folks at the building/permit office give you a hard time about doing things yourself? I know that I will do a great solid job as good as anyone (just slower), but they don't know that. As long as they are inspecting it, do they care who does the work?

Thanks!
 
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Old 02-12-10, 01:31 PM
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If you are going apply for a building permit, then you are going to need an architect to draw some plans. In many places, that's the only way the job will be accepted.
 
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Old 02-12-10, 04:36 PM
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Don't think that is the case where I am ( 132 sq ft screenporch):

What do I need to apply for a Building Permit?
You must submit – Three (3) sets of construction plans for all permits. Additions 700 square feet or larger and all second story additions must have plans prepared by a registered Architect or Professional Engineer. Existing structures require As Built Plans. Stoves and factory-built fireplaces are to be installed to manufacturer’s specifications.
Building Permit Application completed with owners signature.
Plumbing Permit Application completed with signature (if applicable).
Transactional Disclosure Form completed with signature.
Certification of Structures Form completed with signature.
Affidavit for Health Department Requirements (additions to existing structures) completed with signature.
Four (4) photocopies of a survey (Survey must be complete, legible, and full size.)
One (1) photocopy of a tax bill or a tax printout from the Assessors Office.
One (1) Photocopy of all Certificates of: Occupancy, Compliance, Existing Use, or Zoning Compliance for all existing structures on premises.
Proof of Workers Compensation and Disability (Proposed Structure) from builder/contractor.
Statement of estimated cost may be required for labor and materials for structures not calculated by square foot.
Fee – paid when application is accepted (cash or check only).
 
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Old 02-12-10, 05:39 PM
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I see the rules that you posted but it sounds strange that you wouldn't need a permit, considering where you live.

In any event, the code requires 3 foot deep cement footings. I would run 4 posts all the way up to the roof, hang the beams between them & the joist between the beams with joist hangers. I wouldn't use a ledger board. Those are just the basics.
 
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Old 02-13-10, 11:49 AM
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I pretty much need to ledger it since the new porch is fitting into a corner. So, I will need to ledger under the door and was planning to through-bolt. I can't imagine digging two more holes right alongside the existing foundation if a ledger will do.
I was wondering what will be required to attach the first pair of gable rafters to the house. I assume they will want me to use lags into the studs which are on the floor above.
 
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Old 02-13-10, 02:40 PM
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I don't think a ledger board ever takes the place of footings. On that & your question about the rafters, my answer hasn't changed. I still say you need an architect to draw & file the proper plans.
From the east river to the east end of the island, I'm sure it's required.

If you decide to sell the house some day, that's when it will come back to haunt you.
 
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Old 02-13-10, 04:22 PM
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I'm not sure why you keep insisting that I need an architect when I sent the list of requirements which states you need an architect for additions of 700 sq foot or larger. Furthermore how could it come back to haunt me when I sell - I'm not going to be able to build it without a permit. I could see you making that statement if I said I was going to do this job without a permit.

I am drawing my own plans and I am planning on using a ledger. It's a 132 sq ft screen house not a two story addition.
Thanks for you thoughts though, I know you are on here to help people.......
 
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Old 02-13-10, 04:33 PM
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As far as permits and that, whatever. Follow the rules of your town, apply for permits if the town requires them. There is no need for heckling about this really.

No one has ever bothered to answer your first question

1. Which system is stronger/better? I am leaning towards the latter (building the deck 1st), but am wondering if most builders use a Simpson conn. that connects the 4x4 post to the double rim joist. Would it be the BC4 or BC8 or BCS?
I do not want to put my 4x4s onto the porch flooring (will cut around the posts).
If the posts go from the ground right up to support the roof and the deck - terrific. If the deck was built first then the roof was added, as long as you add the new posts right above the foundational posts then it should be just as strong with the proper tie-ins.
 
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Old 02-14-10, 10:55 AM
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Thanks, for some reason it is just making more sense to me to build the deck first and then post off of it to the gable roof. I figure they will tell me if I have a problem with something. It also seems like they would tell me if I need to dig two footers alongside the house instead of a ledger. I am going to try to go this week so I'll let you know what happens.
 
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Old 02-16-10, 01:04 PM
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So, I went to the building division today. The plans examiner said that my drawings were quite good. He had a spacing question, and also wanted more pitch in my cricket. I will re-draw and submit in a day or two. For all those wondering..... You don't always need an architect to draw plans for a small structure such as a porch like mine. I doubt my area is the only exception. Also, there were no issues with using a ledger at the house attachment point.
 
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Old 02-16-10, 01:56 PM
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I'm glad you had such a nice examiner. I hope the inspector is as nice, when the plans are passed to him.

I still think it's strange for your area but I can't argue with good luck. So far, you have plenty of it. Enjoy it.
 
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Old 02-16-10, 02:24 PM
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No luck involved at all. The Building Department outlines the requirements. I simply followed them. I found the experience very pleasant as I knew what to expect and was prepared.
 
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Old 02-16-10, 02:43 PM
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I've worked closely with an architect, a good number of miles west of your area & it's just not the same. If you don't have good luck, then we certainly have bad luck.
 
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Old 02-16-10, 03:49 PM
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It's too bad it has to be that way in your area and I'm sure others. I think it is a good decision to let people draw up their own plans for simple structures such as sheds, decks and porches. I feel it further fulfills the satisfaction one gets in doing a job yourself. Without all the thinking, planning, and researching, the job loses something.
I wonder what % of the country allows it?
 
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Old 02-16-10, 03:56 PM
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It's rare but there have been a few posts here where the person said, I don't have to follow any codes, I can do what I want. You can't beat that.
 
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Old 02-16-10, 04:06 PM
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For all those wondering..... You don't always need an architect to draw plans for a small structure such as a porch like mine.
Ditto, At least in my experience, as long as you draw the project up properly and show that you are following the code for your area, an architect is not required; at least for small projects like this anyways.
 
 

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