Need patio material idea

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Old 02-20-11, 06:13 AM
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Need patio material idea

I am creating a ground level patio area that is shaped like a capital "D" about 50 feet wide x 25 feet deep. As you can see, two shade sails have been added to help break the sun a little. The wood deck to the left will be removed.



A portion of the new patio will have gray Belgard Bergerac pavers. This area gets full southern exposure and gets extremely hot during the summer so I want to minimize the amount of concrete pavers. There is also going to be a small grade level area of gray synthetic decking in the upper left area near the water spigot so the water can disappear between the boards. About 40% of the area will be deck or paver to keep the budget and summer time heat under control which leaves a large area needing some type of cover.

There will be no irrigating or mowing in this area so real grass is not an option (the real grass is being removed to create this lower maintenance patio). One option for the remaining area is artificial turf, possibly with a putting green. Are there any other materials or options that I am not considering? I hate to go with something loose like an ornamental gravel but I'm afraid my mind has gotten stuck on artificial turf.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 03:14 PM
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I know a woman who runs a day care center in her house. The entire yard is artificial turf & it works great. Home Depot sells 2 versions. Buy the more expensive version.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 03:18 PM
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You could have it poured, stamped and stained. I'm getting an estimate for an absentee client tomorrow on about 400 sf, I'll let you know how it goes.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 03:19 PM
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You missed the part about the budget.
 
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Old 02-24-11, 04:47 PM
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Pilot Dane, I'm just going to toss some ideas out there. That seems to be what you're looking for at this point. So this will probably sound a lot like me just rambling!! (That's OK -- I probably am!!)

Pulpo -- maybe yes, maybe no on the part about the budget. Flat work concrete is not expensive. Adding color would only add a few $$ to the project. Stamped, now that WILL add significantly to the cost. But maybe exposed aggregate instead of the stamp?? Maybe a couple of estimates to see what that would be.

I'm a deck contractor -- sure looks like a GREAT spot to me for an Azek deck. Oh, but the budget thing. OOPS!! Deck boards alone would be $10k!

Articial grass (Astro Turf?) Gotta be much better for the budget than Azek.

Pavers?? I don't think heat would be all that much of an issue. (Then too, I lived in Redding, CA for 30 years -- In NC, you don't know NOTHING about heat!!)
 
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Old 02-25-11, 07:26 AM
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Thanks for all the input. I did not mention a budget because it is quite flexible though I do want to keep it under some control. But, since this area is relatively small the budget is tending more to the higher end.

I have gotten samples of artificial turf from several companies and they are running from $3 to $9 a square foot. The base/foundation will add a couple dollars per foot to the cost but that expense will be present with any option I choose.

I know I said real grass is not an option but it is. I'm also looking at the logistics of adding a irrigation system. There is a spigot in this area but no easy water supply that is attractively out of sight. Surprisingly one of the biggest hurdles is finding good quality topsoil. It's a shame I can't get some good midwestern soil brought down.
 
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Old 02-25-11, 08:10 AM
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There something to the top soil being compatible even with sod.

When the new Minnesota Twins ballpark was built, they sent local soil to Colorado for the sod to be grown in and the sod was shipped back fo a fall install. It is an over done design, but it certainly is a great, unique surface. They can get 4" of rain in an hour and the field is playable in 10-15 minutes. - They cheated and have a expansive underground drain/recycling system plus heat to get early growth.

Depending on what the planned future use is, do not eliminate natural grass to break up the concrete and vinyl, but it require some preparation (irrigation, drainage) to minimize future cost

Dick
 
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Old 02-25-11, 10:02 AM
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My 2 cents--how about a flagstone patio over a graded, crushed gravel base? Unless you want turf area, which it doesn't seem like you necessarily do. I think a deep red rock color with mortared joints would look nice and extend your living space.

p.s. thanks for a view of the shade sails--you're right, will be there after humans are gone .

catalpa
 
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Old 02-25-11, 05:04 PM
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Got the estimate on the pour, stamped and stained patio. Approximately 400 sf plus a 20' walkway either 3 or 4' wide. Complete $3975. I've seen this guy's work, and he is good, so I will recommend him.
 
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Old 02-26-11, 08:55 AM
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The Bergerac pavers are the material for the patio area since they are used elsewhere around the house and about half of them are already on site so there is no switching to stamped concrete. I wanted to stick with them to help maintain some continuity between this and other landscaped areas that were not shown in the photo.

The photo was taken last year. Just added this spring are three commercial sized planters 4 feet square and buried to varying depths. One is in the rock area to the right behind the raised bed. The other two are on either side of the closest sail post. Part of the wood decking shown in the photo was removed to make room (I'll have to take another photo). They will be faced with stone veneer to match the foundation of the house.
 
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Old 02-26-11, 08:59 AM
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I know YOUR camera ain't broke.
 
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Old 02-26-11, 09:05 AM
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Yea. When I was working I kept thinking I should take some photos... Oh, I've got enough daylight to get another planter set... and the photos were forgotten.
 
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Old 03-16-11, 06:30 PM
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I totally forgot to post some photos until now. Here is the same area with the planters in place.



From above you can see some of the markings where the concrete paver patio will be installed. The circle is for a circle pattern of pavers.

 
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Old 06-07-11, 08:50 AM
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Thank you for all the advice. I have been working on the area this spring as I've had time and I've finally gotten it mostly finished. I used Belgard Bergerac pavers since I had quite a few left over from another project and they match the walkway at the front of the house. I killed the idea of artificial turf because I was concerned with the life span. I hate the idea of spending so much time and money for a product rated to last about 8 years so I went with real grass and installed a small irrigation system.



 
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Old 06-07-11, 09:38 AM
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Beautiful

Thanks for the pictures
 
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Old 06-07-11, 08:39 PM
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I hate you and your VERY nice patio. Very well done!
 
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Old 04-12-12, 02:43 PM
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Where to buy 4 inch steel posts?

I know this is an old thread, but the pictures in this thread are relevant. Where does one purchase 4 inch schedule 40 steel posts? And what did you use to cap them?

I just installed a nice patio and want to finish the project with a nice shade sail. I'm in the middle of researching the project and sourcing the materials.

Thanks for your help!
 
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Old 04-12-12, 02:52 PM
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Also... one additional question! Why did you choose to install posts next to your house instead of mounting the sail directly to your house for those 4 mount points?
 
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Old 04-12-12, 05:52 PM
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I purchased the 4" schedule 40 posts from a local metal fabricator/welding shop. It's a pretty common material so they had it an stock and cut it to length for me.

The top of the posts are capped with PVC schedule 40 caps. My sail attach points were near the ends of the posts so I cut half circles out of the PVC where the attachments are to create a bit of detail. After the posts were on site I simply pounded the caps on top of the posts and painted.

One sail has one corner attached to the screened porch of our house. Prior to building the shade sails our weather station has recorded gusts over 100 mph during thunder storms and have done a bit of sailing I know the power a sail can harness from the wind so I was concerned about attaching to the house. I engineered everything so in very high wind the sails should fail first. If they don't the next weakest link are the attachment hardware and as a final security measure nothing is attached to the main house. Now that the serious stuff is out of the way, not mounting to the house was done for aesthetics. Most people attach them to the house or vertical poles because it's easy. I wanted a dramatic impact that looked more professional and less DIY. There are no vertical, parallel or perpendicular lines. The back of our house is quite tall and flat. The angled poles and gracefully curving sails look very cool.

This patio are was planned long in advance. I engineered the shade sails and their mounts to commercial standards so the first part of the project was installing the poles. Their footings are massive and then everything else was built around them. Adding the poles to an already existing area could be "interesting". One nice thing of doing it clean slate it that I could put in the footings to support tall poles. If you can't destroy the area you might have to reduce the height a bit to keep the loads manageable.
 
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Old 04-12-12, 07:57 PM
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I like the concept of the sails instead of the rigid roof roofing materials.

The light, non-linear shades are a big improvement over the traditional rigid wood and nails structure.

Dick
 
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Old 04-23-12, 12:35 PM
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Thanks very much for the detailed reply. I agree with everything you were shooting for. Your installation looks very professional... like something you would see in a resort area. This is a fantastic look.

Unfortunately I didn't learn about shade sails until after my patio was complete. However, I think I can still make due as long as I attach two points of a square sail to my house... I'm willing to take the risk. We see high winds maybe once per year, and I want to engineer the sail (and possibly the poles) to be removable. I'm toying with the idea of mounting larger steel tubes in the ground that the 4-inch support tubes can slide into like a sleeve. The sail and supports could be removed for winter and the sleeve tubes could be capped. Not sure if that is feasible or not.
 
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Old 04-23-12, 01:12 PM
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I think you will need some way to hold your removable poles in their sockets to prevent the sails from lifting them out.

If doing a square sail I would avoid having the sail attachments at the house at the same elevation and the poles in the yard at the same height. It just seems plain. Even if you have to mount the two corners to the house at the same elevation I'd try to do the two poles at different heights to give it some interest.


I like the look much better when a square sail has attach points at different elevations with the two highest at diagonal corners.
 
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Old 04-09-13, 12:38 PM
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sun sails

I have a deck that I am also looking to cover with a sunsail. Septic tank prevents the ability to plant trees.

I had put a cheap out-of-box screenhouse cover on a deck a few houses ago, but storms would really shake that thing like crazy (attached to the house, but never collapsed). With the height of the deck, it was impossible to remove the cover safely during winter or when storms were predicted. Now I'm in the country and no wind obstacles to speak of except the west side with the house. I was wanting to put in 6x6 posts set like deck posts (including footings) around the perimeter (currently cantilevered, so wouldn't run into any others), then put a 2x8 box around the top of the posts to stabilize the posts and where the sail would be recessed. After reading the posts, I'm wondering if it is possible (logical) to use wood posts or do you have to use steel? I've yet to find a contractor who seems real knowledgeable about sails and I don't know enough to know who is BSing me ;-) . It is so hard to find requirements for mounting these things.
 
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Old 04-09-13, 04:46 PM
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Start by saying what size sails you need to support before asking if something is adequate.
 
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