Flush Frame Deck Joist Span?

I will be framing a deck over an existing concrete patio. The frist floor is approx. 16-20" above the concrete slab, so would like to frame the beams and joists flush since there is little room for a drop beam. Also I want to allow as much clearance as possible to grade. I plan to frame 2x10 joists 16"o.c. 14' from a ledger board to a double 2x10 beam with post supports no greater than 7'-4" apart.

Looking at span tables etc....I have found varying span dimensions for 2x10 PT douglas fur lumber.

Is the 14' span for 2x10 @ 16"o.c. to large for a flush frame? Any verification would be greatly appreciated.

 

Ledger boards are no longer recommended. Free Standing is the way to go.

 

http://www.awc.org/Publications/DCA/DCA6/DCA6-09.pdf

Gary

 

That long a span may result in a bouncy deck. The IRC deck design guide suggests a 13'-7" maximum span for 2 x 10 Doug fir joists at 16" centers. I'd add another beam at the mid-point, to lessen the likelihood of the "trampoline effect" when people are walking around on it.

 

Thanks...I will play it safe and add another beam.

Another question....

I will be framing a roof over part of the deck. I thought i would use a 6x6 post that went from footing to the header with the deck frame sandwiching the the posts. The link Gary provided me with a link that says not to sandwich the post with beams bolted thru. How then do I frame this? Note that the columns are not located at the perimeter of the deck but within the field.

I guess frame the beam on top of the posts and the the columns of the roof structure directly on top of the beam? Seems less rigid to me.... any thoughts?

 

Decks usually require permits - have you checked with them to see if they have any input on how they would want this done?

 

nah...permits are just a money ploy...dont you know that? they still advise using 6 mil poly sheeting for a vapor barrier at my building dept. i'd rather avoid those old timers.

 

And do what? Make up a story when they come by to inspect because a neighbor has complained regarding something you did or didn't do? Tell your insurance company you didn't know the deck was there when someone accidentally falls down the steps? Tear it down when you go to resell your house because it is not code compliant and was not inspected? It happens.

 

I hope you're not serious.

I really do.

 

Yea, I am serious, they still advise using plastic sheeting as a vapor barrier. I couldn't believe it either.

I am replacing an existing deck at a house I bought 1 year ago. The previous owners installed the deck and i will be putting the new deck in almost the exact same footprint. The deck I ripped out was not code compliant. The footings simply rested on the concrete slab below (no tie down). I found the several of them dangling in the wind because the slab below settled and crack due to tree roots. Yet my inspector did not warn me of the structural issues. Did I waste money getting an inspection?

Point being, whoever put the deck in the first time clearly did not get a permit. They did not educated themselves on how to do it properly, and now I am paying for their ignorance twice over. I don't have the time or money to deal with the building dept. I will do it myself. Isnt it ironic that that is the name of the site?

Oh chandler....read the thread the deck is only 20" off grade. By "code" it doesn't require stairs or railings. But thanks for your insight.

 

Interesting world we live in. Some people's definition of "DIY" actually means "DIY by ignoring building codes and permits."

I would never build a deck almost 2' off the ground without having an approved hand railing around it. All it takes is one elderly person losing their balance and falling off, or a small toddler doing the same. But since the OP is so confident of his abilities and practices, maybe he will take a photo of the finished product and send it to his homeowners' liability insurance carrier, just as a forewarning of significant future claims they may be paying.

 

I came here looking for advice to specific questions I have. Instead I get the typical "you better get a permit" responses. Please spare me.

 

Nope, we will not spare you, we follow proper procedures and codes and only give advice based on that.

 

You are asking us to condone your intentions, when they are clearly not in your best interests?? Your problem is with a Home Inspector who didn't do his job properly. He should have noted the deck was sitting on a non foundation slab. It isn't the permit department's fault.

Answers to specific questions. You can't build a deck on a slab without proper footings.
Douglas fir can span 15'8", but it will be bouncy. I would not attempt a 14' span without mid support.

 

Thanks. Removing slab on Sunday, taking y'all's advice at mid span. Good advice just long winded

 

I didn't mention anything about permits although that could be important, if you decide to sell. Under 18" in some places don't, require a permit. Since you said 16-24, it should be ok. Keep it under that.

 

I will be framing a roof over part of the deck. I thought I would use a 6x6 post that went from footing to the header with the deck frame sandwiching the the posts. Note that the columns are not located at the perimeter of the deck but within the field.

Please see the attached images. Which method of framing is correct, if any?

 

I know you said the perimeter bands are not on the outside, but IMO, they would look much better if they were continuous across the end of your beam and post. Just cleaner. That way you won't be looking at the joist hangers. Check with the code people to see if they will require you to bolt the beams to the verticals and just how many times each with spacing. Just an observation.

 

The short joists spanning between the outermost beam and the exterior edge of the deck will need doubled up rim boards to properly support them. Far too much potential for rotation with just a single rim board. You would do better to support the joists over the outermost beam, letting them cantilever out to the deck edge. Would save a ton of $$$ on joist hangers too.

 

chandler, not sure i am understanding. Maybe the images I posted are misleading. They are partial sketches which only intend to show the connection of the post and beam at the roof overhang. I do intend to put footings at the perimeter with a double rim joist.

I agree with you BridgeMan, I just thought it would be worth flush framing because its only 20" at the most off grade...the drop beam would need to sit directly on the footings. Having the beam this close to grade makes it more susceptible to rot etc.?

My real concern is how to support the roof that covers only a portion of the deck. Should the posts be continuous from footing to header or should the posts break with the beam running continuous directly on top and the columns sitting directly on the beam with a fastener....