which nails are used where?

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Old 05-24-14, 02:55 PM
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which nails are used where?

I have bunch of nails that came with my order. 16d, 10d 3 and 1.5 inches as well as 8d 1.5 and 2.5 inches.

I believe the 16d is used for attaching the posts to the beams. I also have the joist hangers, corner braces, and hurricane ties, all of which I don't know which nails to use for. I have deck screws for the planks.
 
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Old 05-24-14, 03:23 PM
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16d are framing nails. All the 8d and 10d are hanger nails. Look up your specific hanger on Simpson website to determine what nails to use where. Often the long 10d are used to toenail the joist through the hanger to the ledger. The Simpson strongtie site should clear that up. If you can't figure it out tell us the exact hanger model #.
 
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Old 05-24-14, 04:04 PM
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Yup followed your advice but instead of Simpson I have USP. Found the hardware guide. There are some holes requiring the 16d nail yet it doesn't quite fit in that hole. I'm guessing the hammer will deal with that? And also some holes bigger than any nails I have, I'm also guessing this is for inertia and strength properties?
 
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Old 05-24-14, 04:43 PM
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If the holes aren't large enough i bet you use the 2.5" 10d. If we knew the hanger # we would have a better idea.
 
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Old 05-24-14, 04:56 PM
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Yeah sure I'll send you the link to the guide as well

http://www.uspconnectors.com/ca-cata...dfs/cn57ed.pdf

I have the following...

EPBH66 (Page 54)
PB66-6TZ (page 58)
JUS28-TZ (unlisted so using JUS28 on page 91)
RT7A-TZ (unlisted so using RT7A on page 162)
AC7-TZ (unlisted so using AC7 on page 70)

So I have found the nails, but it doesn't say the length of the nail. Is this just judgement based? As in, I wouldn't use a 3" 10d nail to go through a 2x8 joist...?

Also for PB66-6TZ, I am confused as it says there are 8 nails for the beam and 8 for the post, yet the piece only has 4 of each.

*EDIT

For piece AC7, which piece of lumber is the longer side attached to. Attaching the headers to the rim joists, by the picture it looks like the longer side is for the force acting downwards which would mean the rim joists?
 
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Old 05-24-14, 07:29 PM
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EPBH66 = (4) 16d hot dipped galvanized.
PB66-6TZ = (8) 16d hot dipped galvanized (since these are installed in pairs, see the footnote regarding the specs being for a pair of hangers, not just one)
JUS28-TZ = (6) 10d x 1 1/2 + (4) 10d x 2 1/2 for shear nailing (as illustrated on page 89)
RT7A-TZ = (10) 8d x 1 1/2
AC7-TZ = (8) 10d x 1 1/2

The angled shear nailing holes will ALWAYS be a long nail, not a short one. Not all hangers have shear nailing holes (nailed at an angle). Some nail into the joist perpendicularly. When that's the case, they are short nails. Yours appear to be shear nailed.

In most cases if the joist hanger nails will be going into a double thickness of lumber, you use the longer 2.5" nails. So where 8d or 10d x 1 1/2 (above) will go into 2 thicknesses of lumber, use 8d x 2 1/2". So yes, if the nail will poke through the lumber with a 2.5" nail, (as when nailing to a single member) you should use a 1.5" nail. That would probably be the simple way to explain it. That ensures that when there are 2 joists together (as in a header), they are BOTH sharing the load of the member that is in the hanger via the hanger nails, rather than just one side of the header or the other carrying all of that load.

For piece AC7, which piece of lumber is the longer side attached to.
The rim, so as to achieve F2 ratings (resistance to lateral forces).
 
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Old 05-24-14, 09:39 PM
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You'd have a much better-performing system if you use through-bolts instead of nails to attach "posts" (either columns or safety rail posts) to main framing members.

At least that's been my experience on this side of the border.
 
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Old 05-25-14, 04:35 AM
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You are awesome, couldn't get any more thorough than that! Thanks a bunch
 
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Old 05-25-14, 04:38 AM
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You'd have a much better-performing system if you use through-bolts instead of nails to attach "posts" (either columns or safety rail posts) to main framing members.
Attaching the post to the post base? The piece embedded in concrete?
 
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Old 05-25-14, 12:27 PM
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Attaching a vertical square member (railing post or support column) to a horizontal, thinner rectangular member (beam, joist or rimboard).
 
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Old 05-25-14, 03:16 PM
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PB66-6TZ = (8) 16d hot dipped galvanized (since these are installed in pairs, see the footnote regarding the specs being for a pair of hangers, not just one)
I don't quite get how I can attach 2 of these pieces to one piece of lumber. I can only fit one 2x8 on it. Can you please explain this part?
 

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Old 05-25-14, 05:33 PM
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Look on page 58, where at the top is says, PB Two-piece design.

Look at the illustration titled, "typical PB-TZ installation", then look at the illustration of a PB bracket, immediately below it. In the top illustration, there is one PB bracket installed on one side of the post, and another installed on the opposite side of the post, that you can't see because it's behind the post. That's why on the nailing schedule, it says that 8 nails are for the POST and 8 nails are for the BEAM. (a 3" wide beam, not a single 2x8.)

PB stands for post bracket. I don't know how you intend to use it but it sounds like you may be using it in a way it was not designed for. Maybe a SPT6 bracket or some other bracket would be more suited for your application if you are trying to hold a single member on top of a post. I can't say. I "think" this is where Bridgeman is coming from... its probably safe to assume that using a single PB66 to hold your structure down to your post is probably the "weakest link", and we don't even know the half of what you're building. All we have is the hanger/bracket shopping list. When doubled and used in pairs to hold BOTH SIDES of a doubled beam (as illustrated) it would meet the uplift and shear ratings. Using just ONE on ONE SIDE of a post-joist connection evidently isn't something that this particular bracket was designed or tested to do.

So maybe rather than having a single 2x8 on top of your post, if that 2x8 was doubled, then you would be able to put a PB66 on each side of the post, and you would use 2 1/2" long nails on each side into the beam so that everything would work as advertised.
 
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Old 05-25-14, 09:00 PM
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Bridgeman is coming from DCA 6, where Figures 8, 24 and 25 all show fasteners being 1/2"-dia. through-bolts. None of them shows nails to attach a square post or column to any thinner rectangular member.

Since the OP is in Canada, he'll probably be hesitant about a U.S.-based deck building guide being referenced. Even though same is IRC-compliant.

C'est domage.
 
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Old 05-25-14, 09:53 PM
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Size:  13.3 KBYeah my design has two 2x8's as supports. So they're basically together and I have 2 of the PB's for the two beams. But if I use 2.5" nails, won't they interfere through the other side? Picture is attached. This is how I'm imagining it...
 
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Old 05-25-14, 09:58 PM
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Since the OP is in Canada, he'll probably be hesitant about a U.S.-based deck building guide being referenced. Even though same is IRC-compliant.
Not really hesitant. Since I'm not familiar with the guides, I am trying to take any and all advice from the forum and local codes.
 
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Old 05-25-14, 10:13 PM
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I took some real pictures with the nails theoretically in both post caps
The first picture has 3.5" nails which obviously won't be used but it shows that the holes coincide. The second picture shows 2.5" nails where in they would meet in the lumber. Or am I over thinking all of this?


Name:  20140526_000506 (1).jpg
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Size:  32.8 KBName:  20140526_000724.jpg
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Old 05-25-14, 10:32 PM
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The DCA6 on page 12 mentions post cap attachments as shown in figure 10 as being acceptable. But I've never built any decks in Canada.

Overthinking? Yes and no. Entertaining the idea of notching and bolting as Bridgeman mentions (from figure 8, 24, 25) is clearly superior to most types of metal ties. So you would be right to question that. It's a question of which will be stronger. I think we would hate to see your project wiggle and shake when people are on it.

Overthinking two 2 1/2" nails coming at each other from opposite sides of a beam? Yeah, you are overthinking that.
 
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Old 05-26-14, 08:12 AM
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Overthinking? Yes and no. Entertaining the idea of notching and bolting as Bridgeman mentions (from figure 8, 24, 25) is clearly superior to most types of metal ties. So you would be right to question that. It's a question of which will be stronger. I think we would hate to see your project wiggle and shake when people are on it.
Oh ya of course we'd definitely hate the wiggle of course. I guess I'm just following my local code more than anything. If you want I'll send that link too and unless I didn't get something right maybe I CAN do the method shown in figure 8. I was always spectacle about using carriage bolts because of the shear stress, but I never came across the idea of notching the post to accommodate the support beams. That can definitely be done.

http://www6.mississauga.ca/onlinemap...andporches.pdf

Overthinking two 2 1/2" nails coming at each other from opposite sides of a beam? Yeah, you are overthinking that.
Great then, if there won't be interference then it's good. That's where my mind had a little brain fart. 2.5" it is...
 
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