Attached Pergola dilemma

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Old 06-24-14, 11:48 AM
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Attached Pergola dilemma

I want to add an attached pergola over an 8x12 concrete patio to the backside of a two story townhouse, depending on how involved it is. I've looked all over the internet trying to find the best way to attach the overhead 2x6 or 2x8 ledger board to T1-11 siding. I'm not crazy about cutting into the siding to mount the board and am leaning towards using spacers. Could the rafters be nailed directly to the siding using joist hangers and blocking maybe....? Just a thought.

Also the pergola will be coming off a lean-to type storage shed on one side (open on the opposite side) and would like to extend the pitch of that roof to the pergola using 2x6 sloped rafters. The existing trim will need to be taken off the shed but do I run the end of the ledger under the eaves of the shed flush with the wall and then nail the first 2x6 rafter parallel to the shed on top of the end of the ledger or nail the rafter first and butt the ledger board against it? Does it make a difference?

I plan on nailing a notched 2x6 to the shed and stand a 6x6 on the opposite end to hold a 2x6 or 2x8 cross beam which would support the rafters.

I'm fairly handy and thought this would be a simple project so any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated.
 
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Old 06-24-14, 02:27 PM
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Don't use a ledger board. Build it free standing. Don't forget to use the proper footings. Don't set the posts on the patio.
 
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Old 06-24-14, 04:34 PM
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Ledger

If using a ledger, fasten the ledger through the siding to the studs.
 
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Old 06-24-14, 09:22 PM
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Thanks for the insight Pulpo. Looks like more research is in my immediate future....

There's a bumpout of about 2' deep and 10' wide right over the patio door that would prevent the freestanding option, I think, as it's from this overhang that a possible ledger would be attached and wrapped around a corner, and then runs under a window to end at the fireplace wall.

Had also committed to the post on the patio using a 6x6 Simpson strongtie that elevates the post off the concrete.
 
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Old 06-24-14, 09:38 PM
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Most of the pictures I've been seeing looks like the ledger was placed against the siding but it was mostly brick or stucco. My concern is how to flash it properly also. I replaced the siding in that area only a few years ago and had to replace the sill as well due to water damage from an a/c condensation line that was improperly installed.

It's little details like these that can turn what seems to be simple into complicated real quick but I'm liking your idea.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 07:00 AM
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How does the bump out stop free standing? You still need footings to meet code.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 09:45 AM
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Unless unusual construction practices and/or materials were used, most bump-outs would not be capable of adequately supporting a load-bearing ledger. Just something to think about.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 10:12 AM
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By freestanding you mean using 4 posts instead of a ledger and 2 posts?

I'll see if I can attach a picture of my patio tonight because I can't see now how freestanding could work at this point but gives me another angle to consider.

Previously, I had someone come out to take a look and they proposed what could be considered freestanding but couldn't see where they'd be able to put the necessary posts to make it work, and, it wouldn't be sloped which would make the headroom much lower, maybe 6' and made me claustrophobic just thinking about it, which is why I went with a sloped configuration.

BTW, why not put the posts on the patio? Is the concern code or thickness of the concrete and the weight of the pergola...?

Thanks for your input.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 10:55 AM
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A free-standing deck or pergola does not need to be installed right up to the deck, but can be cantilevered back to toward the home a couple of feet and even more depending on the size of the cantilevered beam/grid. This detail eliminates all of the headaches from a ledger attachment.

A pergola usually has very little download and it can be attached to the patio with the right embedments and Simpson hardware for uplift also.

Dick
 
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Old 06-25-14, 11:12 AM
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The posts don't have to be limited to 4. If there is a turn involved due to the bump out, 2 extra posts can be used. Code is what stops the posts from being set on the patio, even if the patio is 8" thick. I know that you aren't going to file plans with the building dept, but you want it up to code just in case you decide to sell the house.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 11:47 AM
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Since I'm still in the planning stage I was actually contemplating getting a building permit which I thought would pretty much guide me on what I can and can't do because I do have concerns about it being up to code...and sturdy.

Depending on my research and this forum I'd then consider if I REALLY want to take this on or have someone else do it altogether but didn't want to go that route due to previous issues with contracted work that actually wasn't up to code and they had to come back and redo it or never did, so since I have a lot of unused power tools laying around why not give it a try.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 11:54 AM
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To get a building permit, plans have to be submitted. I didn't think that you wanted to pay an architect to draw them. It's actually a good idea, since they know the code. It's up to you.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 11:56 AM
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Dick...just googled 'cantilevered pergolas' and that is way cool! Of all the Googling I've done that design never came up. THANK YOU. Yes that would definitely solve the ledger board dilemma.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 12:09 PM
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I actually have a neighbor that's an architect but havent approached him because I have no idea what he would charge...leaning more towards prohibitive.

Thought I could submit a general plan to get the building permit, which is why I thought starting on this forum might go a long ways towards that end and have already learned quite a bit and very grateful for everyone's thoughts.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 01:03 PM
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So exactly why do you have lots of unused power tools laying around? Just a rich guy who doesn't know what to do with his money? If that's the case, there's always the option of buying a Bentley.

Most of us buy the tools we need and use, when we can afford to do so.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 02:50 PM
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BridgeMan45...I wish that was the case, lol. Quite the opposite. I collected tools over the years thinking I'd tackle certain projects and then chickened out or paid someone else to do them. But I'm just dying to redeem myself before hanging up my tool belt and figured this pergola idea was just the ticket. Wanted to take my time and do it in stages as I got the money and the time. Who knows, if that worked out I'd start on that detached storage shed with a loft...and that fence...etc
 
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Old 06-25-14, 02:57 PM
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Pulpo, stopped by the architect's house on the way home and found out he'd passed away a couple years ago but the wife gave me the name of a draftsman who might be able to help me and the name of a contractor that she highly recommended...in case I chicken out or decide to purchase a very nice patio umbrella set instead
 
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Old 06-25-14, 04:54 PM
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I'm sorry to hear that the guy passed away. That's bad luck for both of you. LOL at buying an umbrella. As an alternative, there are some nice year round awnings.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 05:09 PM
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A very important lesson I learned more than a half-century ago is that you want the assurance of a project being done correctly, the solution is to do it yourself. If you lack specific skills in some areas, you can learn them by first acquiring a few good reference books, and then by watching professionals doing the tasks before jumping in yourself. I was fortunate in growing up in a European work-ethic atmosphere (both parents emigrated to the U.S. as children, and had been pulled out of grade school to work in local factories to help feed the family). My Pa taught me at an early age the basics of using tools to do just about anything and everything, relying on skills he learned from his father, my Russian Grandpa.

If you've never built anything at all, I'd suggest you start with something small before jumping into pergola construction, to avoid becoming overwhelmed (and chickening out again). Something like a small, custom shelf unit to store all of the power tools you already have, and then maybe a nice work bench, with drawers for nails and screws, a few vices (wood-working and metal-working) for clamping materials, and some built-in electrical outlets. Build some forms and pour a small concrete slab, so you gain some placing and finishing experience before the pergola footings come calling. Just remember that with the right attitude (and a dose of patience), there's nothing you can't do.
 
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Old 06-25-14, 07:22 PM
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Well guys. No pics of my patio as promised...apparently my phone was decommissioned on 4/30/14 for sending picture mail and no one told me .

Bridgeman45 I appreciate the encouragement. I grew up around these type projects and have a few small diy things under my belt. I've poured footings for posts, built a sloped stair railing, flower boxes, a frame for a swing etc and thought it was time for me to push myself just a little, take it slow and methodical like.

Not sure how I'm going to proceed. I really like the cantilever pergola at Pergolas, Olathe, Kansas, KS but that looks a little more complicated than my skills will allow for due to its balancing act but I can at least run it by a contractor

You guys are awesome. A BIG thank you to everyone who contributed and I'll post back once I get the ball rolling on this long overdue project...tired of the sun bearing down on my head when I was on that patio doing the other projects. Take care.
 
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