Tile on painted concrete


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Old 01-19-15, 04:11 PM
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Tile on painted concrete

This one is separate from my other tile question. I've got some concrete front steps which are currently painted with some kind of sealer, not sure if it's a heavy enamel or a 2-part epoxy, or something else entirely. All I can tell at the moment is that it's red and there's a large slab in the back yard which looks to be coated with the same stuff.

I'm interested in covering these steps with some kind of tile/stone both for the look and to provide some surface texture for improved traction in the rain.

Do I need to strip the coating off of the concrete before installing tile, or would I just lay down the appropriate adhesive (not sure if mastic is appropriate for outdoor use or if there's some equivalent) then install the new surface over whatever this stuff is?

Also, I'd eventually like to demo out the existing poured walkway and replace it with pavers, but will probably wait on that until I get through my to-do list for the house to when I do the same with the driveway. Is there much risk of damaging the steps when breaking out the path, and should I wait to tile the steps (a small enough time/$$$ job that I don't need to really prioritize it) till that's done to avoid such damage?
 
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Old 01-19-15, 06:32 PM
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All the paint would need to go, and it would all have to be sanded off, not chemically stripped.
The "path" and the steps should be two separate pores, so I see no way unless someone was a hack the steps would be damage.
Posting a picture would sure help.
 
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Old 01-19-15, 07:16 PM
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AsJoe mentioned all of the coating will have to be removed the steps first. One thing to consider is that by adding on top of the steps you're going to throw off the height of the steps compared to the sidewalk is definitely a no-no as far as code goes. Why don't you just add the pavers to the top of the concrete, it would be much easier and would help maintain the correct spacing of the steps.
 
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Old 01-20-15, 07:05 AM
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Yeah, the code violation due to the difference in riser height this would cause was the first thought I had as well.
 
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Old 01-20-15, 09:28 AM
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took another look at the steps this morning, and it does look to be paint rather than epoxy based on a patch that's worn off on one step. The previous owner of the house wasn't a big fan of either maintenance or workmanship, so I'm not sure why I thought it might have been an epoxy.

For removing paint for this task, would a wire wheel on an angle grinder be a good tool? I've also got multiple drills, sawzall and belt sander if some accessory on one of those would be a better fit for the job. My pressure washer is a lower-power unit and would be fine for cleaning up the debris after stripping but probably hasn't got the pop to take off the paint initially. I'm pretty sure the path is a separate pour from the steps, I'm wondering if the proximity of the end of the path to the bottom of the steps might endanger stone/ceramic tile on the lowest riser on the steps while breaking out the path since demo tools (especially those capable of breaking up concrete) aren't always high-precision.

The riser height on the steps isn't very high as it is, the entry is three steps in the concrete plus one step up to the front door threshold (there's no landing at the door), maybe 6-7.5" rise per step, I'd figured that tile plus whatever adhesive would add 1/2 inch or less to the height of the steps, and would add the same to each step. Doing this at the same time as the path would allow for the path to be evened up with the new step height, leaving only a little mismatch into the front door, which may already be a different height (I'd have to check).

Ultimately I'm looking to slightly change the grade of the landscaping around the house since the current situation has the ground sloping in toward the foundation for about 6-8 feet from the walls (the cement walkway is part of this as well as the driveway along the side, both are cracked and neither is level) which is why my plan is to get rid of the concrete and put in pavers (the existing concrete isn't a suitable substrate even if I did want to use it) to level the path and improve curb appeal along with working in some drainage improvements at the same time plus routing in drip irrigation for the landscaping.
 
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Old 01-20-15, 07:53 PM
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A wire wheel on an angle grinder tends to leave a polished surface, which isn't conducive to laying tile on. Too smooth, not enough bite. You'd do better by using a masonry wheel on the angle grinder (assuming it's at least a 7"), or bite the bullet and rent an abrasive walk-behind grinder.
 
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Old 01-21-15, 08:03 AM
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Yes, doing the path the same way could eliminate the different heights.
 
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Old 01-21-15, 09:14 AM
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thanks for the tips.

I'd have to look at the grinder, but I'm guessing the steps may be too small to use any kind of walk-behind unit (maybe 12-14" deep and about 38" wide, plus I'd be looking to clean off the "riser" faces as well. My grinder is only a 4.5" model, but I'm guessing I could rent a 7" model if needed.

Is there some way to "rough up" the surface after the wire wheel? air hammer/recip saw attachment maybe? for the amount of area involved I could manage something with hand tools if it came down to it.
 
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Old 01-21-15, 01:43 PM
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I've noticed a few places carry a 4 inch "diamond cup" which says it's for concrete. Would that on a 4.5 inch grinder get me to where I need to end up for installing tile?

Also, is mastic the right material for exterior use under the tile, or is there something else that's better suited?
 
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Old 01-21-15, 02:38 PM
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Well, I can answer the mastic question...absolutely not! Mastic is only for dry or maybe slightly damp areas like a kitchen back splash.

I can't say exactly what to use, but I'd think a thinset mortar of some sort.
 
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Old 01-21-15, 03:37 PM
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I've never used a diamond cup, but if you can afford it, it should do the trick. I have used a 4.5" masonry wheel that's cup-shaped, but prefer a larger 7" version because it takes off more material, and is easier to use without making indentations in the concrete.

And don't use mastic for an exterior application--I've seen them fail after short periods of time. Thinset is your friend.
 
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Old 01-22-15, 08:57 AM
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thanks for the info. this'll be my first foray into anything tile-related, 95% of my experience to date is with carpentry/woodworking or just replacing parts without any fabrication.
 
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Old 01-30-15, 11:40 PM
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we use diamond cups all the time - do NOT get the 1 w/segments about the perimeter as they trap swarf inside the wheel & slow the grinding process,,, use the turbo wheel instead which spins the swarf away from the wheel.

we own 4, 7, & 9" grinders - mostly aeg & metabo,,, our throwaways are dewalts but they're also cheap,,, probably for your job i'd buy the 4" @ the apron/vest store & get the wheels from eBay ( we use advantatool or fc727 ),,, spec a conc wheel so you don't get 1 that's too hard for conc

ear plugs, decent dust mask, & eye protection, too,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, good knee pads are also nice to use

not a fan of exterior tile however bud cline sez there's exterior thinset & he's a tile guy

bdge, what's a 4 masonry wheel ? abrasive ?
 
 

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