Using facia bracket for pegola rafters

Reply

  #1  
Old 02-18-15, 08:28 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Using facia bracket for pegola rafters

Hi,

I just built a 22.5 deg pagle roof pegola 5mx9m using treated pine timber 240mmx45mm and to connect the rafters to the ridge from both sides i used these 22.5deg Galvanised Extended Fascia Bracket.

Name:  bracket.jpg
Views: 5854
Size:  6.6 KB

So this bracket you see i have on both sides at the frame of the pegola and on the top ridge with the arm of the bracket facing up and down and attached to the rafter using 4 x M10 galvanised nuts/bolts.

Now my concern is that the arm of these brackets are quite flexible, im not sure they are designed to be like this so they can take the force of the wind and take pressure away from the joints of the structure, or maybe this is weakness in the bracket, and when using this bracket you require further support. As you can imagine the arms being flexible, the top half of the structure if you push with your hands vertically to the frames from the ridge with little power the entire structure moves back and forth by a good 3-4cm, and in my area we get up to 60knot winds, and my cocnern is that this could actually loosen the joints and cause cracks in the wood?

I can solve the problem easily, but before i do i want to know if i should or are the brackets un purposely designed to do that for whatever reason.

Any comments??
 

Last edited by PJmax; 02-19-15 at 04:02 PM. Reason: inserted picture
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 02-19-15, 05:32 AM
czizzi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
For better assistance, please provide some pictures of the structure itself. I know you have several threads open right now, and each would be well served by the addition of a picture of your project. When building a roof structure, much of the structural strength of the system comes when the roof decking materials are added. However, that being said, using brackets that are designed for a different non-structural purpose as a structural member is never a good idea.
 
  #3  
Old 02-19-15, 05:57 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
here is a picture from before where you can see the brackets....

Name:  pegola.jpg
Views: 1775
Size:  51.5 KB
 
  #4  
Old 02-19-15, 06:14 PM
czizzi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
Not sure where to start....There is so much wrong with your design. It if flimsy for a reason, it is not built to any reputable standards of building practices. Your roof rafters are too far apart, your brackets are useless, the rafters should be fastened directly to the ridge, the tails of the rafters should sit ON the outer supports, not flush. Hopefully, you don't plan on having people gather under this thing.
 
  #5  
Old 02-19-15, 09:08 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: usa
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I agree with czizzi...too many problems...looks like u have "rafters" flush beam (would never pass inspection in my area of nj )...48" o.c.? Kinda spaced huh...? Might wanna back track and get those rafters fixed....hardware is not intended to carry weight loads unless specifically designed and permitted by an arcitect- engineer...at least in my experience...frame the rafters properly then tie to beams with appropriate hardware. make sure you calculate all possible weight loads when designing your roof...
 

Last edited by Isaac Gomez; 02-19-15 at 09:10 PM. Reason: mis quoted-spelled
  #6  
Old 02-19-15, 11:46 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
ok well as you can see im a beginner its first time i built anything really.

Regarding the length between the rafters (2.17m) i had my plan approved by the council engineer and i actually followed the basic design that the council provided and in that the ridge is also flush and doesnt sit on the main frame, and it was him as well as the people in the hardware store who reccomended these brackets, and from what i hear its what everyone use here as the major hardware stores here in Australia, besides that they only have 90degree connection brackets, not any angled ones, unless if you improvise and use two single L shape 90deg brackets, which is what i may have to do.

I have seen many pegolas with this exact design with the ridge only connected to the rafters supported by collar ties and there are photos on the internet aswell, and really its only the flexibility of the bracket which allowes the structure to move back and forth and other than that there is 0 problem, everything is solid, you can walk on the ridge no problem, all the correct size nuts and bolts, in the correct locations and in the right amount was used.

The weight of the structure it self on the side that is connected to the house, you cant see properly from the photo but it is connected to the rafters of the house of the house using the same brackets in reverse. the bracket are about 3-4mm thick and i highly doubt the weight of the rafter and ridge would be a problem as the brackets are designed to support heavy weight, its just the flexibility of it thats a problem and i think i made a mistake by using diffrent brackets in some parts specially at the front and back connections.


Now i can solve this problem as well as the the problem you guys mentioned about the rafters being two far apart, by puting in new rafters in between the current ones and this time attach them to the frames on both sides using diffrent brackets which would take away the flexibility, and that should stop the ridge from moving back and forth.

or

I can connect the frames on the posts to the frame attached to the house from both the tale and front of the structure by a beam and then from that attach both ends of the ridge to it which would act as supporting posts and that should also stop the moving back and forth.

What im thinking is if i can stop the moving back and forth of the structure, there should be 0 problem, if you guys do can you elaborate further so i can understand better.

please try to stay balanced , im sure you can pick a couple of things wrong with it its not perfect by any means, but surely its not like what you think either, where you think the structure is on the verge of collapse.
 

Last edited by SC001; 02-20-15 at 01:35 AM.
  #7  
Old 02-20-15, 05:32 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
We certainly aren't coming down hard on you, it is just we want you to be safe, and the methodology is not coinciding with standard practices. 2.17 meters is converted to 7.11 feet, which is an oddity in itself. You are down under, so proceed with approved construction methods of your area. We space pergola rafters at no more than 24" or .6 meters for stability reasons.

Take our concerns to heart, as we are not accustomed to rogue type fasteners, which aren't approved for such applications, plus spacing of rafters which is odd and too far apart. What will be your roof covering?
 
  #8  
Old 02-20-15, 05:51 AM
czizzi's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
Larry, it is more than what you see, he has another active thread wanting to build a deck under this with a open fire pit on a wooden deck. He says the roof will be Roma Polycarbonate panels.Polycarbonate Roofing, Greca, Roma, Trimdek, SolaSafe, LaserLite

http://www.doityourself.com/forum/de...ml#post2388752

Hopefully his homeowners insurance is up to date and his liability coverage is top notch. He just might burn the house down before he hurts anybody underneath it.
 
  #9  
Old 02-20-15, 06:14 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,967
Received 2 Votes on 2 Posts
Say it ain't so I read the other post, too. Oh my goodness. I'm goin' back to my hole.
 
  #10  
Old 02-20-15, 08:31 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: usa
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
After finding the other posts with the mentioned fire pit underneath this structure I'm really hesitant on commenting with out a disclaimer...cross lateral bracing is the phrase your looking for...good luck with your endeavors...please keep an extinguisher handy...
 
  #11  
Old 02-20-15, 08:46 AM
Handyone's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: U.S.
Posts: 5,451
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
We're trying not to come down on you, but you are in a learning stage.

I suggest you do a search for this, and download the PDF file:

Installer's Pocket Guide - Simpson Strong-Tie

I believe the ties are available world wide. Study the guide, paying attention to the rafter ties and joist hangers. Also look at strapping for use over the ridge. I think you will see how these ties can substantially increase the strength of your structure. Any questions and you can ask here.
 
  #12  
Old 02-20-15, 11:04 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: usa
Posts: 15
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I wanna apologize for being so short without explanation. Sorry...Simpson strong ties will help sturdy joints throughout this structure But they should not be used as your primary point of load transfer...can you elaborate on climate. High winds? Snow? Heavy rains? Etc...with a poly carbonate overlay I'm starting to question uplift. I'm sure with a little more understanding, we can help you safely build this structure. Please accept my sincere apologies.
 
  #13  
Old 02-21-15, 05:41 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Australia
Posts: 9
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
wind here is about 60 knots.

We have come to the conclusion, basically we will be attaching the tail end of the ridge, to the fram of the house, by a (1.5x1.5x39 inch) steel post, in a way that the weight of the ridge will also be resting on the frame of the house, via the mentioned bracket used in reverse and attached to the rafters of the house with 4 M10 nuts/bolts.

On the front end the same will happen as i will attach a beam joining the 2 frames making it a rectangle, and attach the front of the ridge to the main frame of the structure.

This would stop the movement of the structure from any angle or way and you can walk on the structure, everything is bolted on tightly we have in some cases secured it more then what the standard is.

The roofing sheets will sit on the main structure and purlins attached from top to bottom which are already attached, i only used this photo to show the brackets.

I have looked at alot of pegolas both in person and on the internet and what i found was every structure had a diffrent design and things done diffrently, this tells me there is more than one way to do something right, its sort of like going to the gym how everyone will come and tell you to do something their way, and usually most people are right in what they say

This structure isnt getting built for a display home, its just to keep the rains/sun of our head, and council already approved my plan everything from the posts cementing, frame atatchment, nuts and bolts and the required amount and size, and everything is positioned evenly and accurately. As you can understand me being a beginner i would always rather ask anyway and see what more exprienced people say.

regarding the small fire pit, i wasnt sure and i knew it could potentially be a stupid question but why would that stop me from asking? i got nothing to loose. My reasoning was that in sucha a small pit, which can only hold so much firewood, which would be done in a controlled manner. Having being around fires i know if your 30cm away you feel the heat but if you move back another 10-20cm you feel no heat. I unerstand alot of the heat would rise and it would be much hotter above, so there for i wasnt sure if there is a curtain rule of thumb regarding this. I mean if my cieling heigh was 20ft would it be a problem? Regardless i wont be going ahead with it, but i still had to ask anyway to se what i can learn of it
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: