bracket footing adjustments

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Old 07-11-15, 05:16 AM
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bracket footing adjustments

Hello,

Footings for our pergola were poured yesterday. It will be similar to this:

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When i go to place the bracket on the footing it is slightly off level. what do you use to bring it back to level? Shims or something? Would you adjust the bracket or the post?

We are using 6x6 posts. When i just put them in those brackets and put a screw or two in there it is hard for me to feel comfortable that they will stay standing upright but trust in those brackets.

Thanks again for all the help on this forum. Great place for help and input.
 
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Old 07-11-15, 05:24 AM
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OK, what bracket are you using?
How much is "slightly off level"?
 
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Old 07-11-15, 05:25 AM
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I would grind the concrete to where you have a level spot for the post base to be attached. Just a word of caution. I don't believe the pergola in the picture used any post bases, as it appears the posts were embedded in the ground. Reason is, there is too much weight on the inside of the pergola to allow it to stand using post bases alone. Post bases are made for vertical weight, not lateral or swaying as you will have with the offset design.
 
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Old 07-11-15, 05:29 AM
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a couple are off by about 1/16 or so i would guess.

@Chandler is there a way to remedy this as it stands current do you think?
 
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Old 07-11-15, 05:43 AM
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Once you grind the concrete flat, install your post base, all deviation should go away. Then you can cut the post the height you need. If you have already cut the post, leave the aberration at the top, not the bottom, since all the weight must be even there. Do you already have the posts installed?? I am getting that from your last post. If so, you may be able to use fiber or plastic shims, or galvanized metal pieces as shims under the base for such a small area. You can post a picture of what you have to let us see what you are seeing.
 
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Old 07-11-15, 05:44 AM
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Here is a picture of what little i have started so far on standing the posts and stuff up to give you some idea as to what i am up against.

The green circles are those where i have footings and my original plan. If it would help to offset what i believe i am understanding chandler is saying woudl it help at all to add 3 more posts perhaps where the red circles are? Would that help? I don't really want to do this but i am concerned about what my options are where i stand current?

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Old 07-11-15, 05:52 AM
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Thanks for the assistance. I can grind the concrete no problem or get a small metal shim to shim it slightly to get it flat. Do you think we can still build out the pergola in the picture with the brackets and how we have set things up currently?
 
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Old 07-11-15, 06:10 AM
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Not sure what the red circle footings would do for you. Your problem with a pergola with only one post and being offset, weight wise, will be the tendency for it to fall toward the heavy (long) side. Pergolas need to be balanced or have more support for the overhead parts. One solution would be to bring angle bracing back from your pergola to the posts, but that would require a full length beam at the long end of the individual boards. Not insurmountable, just more wood to contend with.
 
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Old 07-11-15, 06:23 AM
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I am not sure I am following your suggestion.

The red circles was just a thought to give some perpendicular bracing to the long side i guess is what i was thinking. Not sure if that would work.

Are you thinking the yellow lines in this picture? Name:  0711150731-sm.jpg
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Old 07-11-15, 07:08 AM
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Note the picture. The red indicates too much unbalanced weight on the inside for the post bases to handle the offset without uprooting themselves. The original design may not need angle bracing, but if you do not provide some sort of bracing between posts, the entire thing will list to the side and fall. You will need something like you picture anyway.

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Old 07-11-15, 07:18 AM
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I believe i am starting to follow. I will need the angle pieces (yellow lines) that i mention which we were going to put in which is good. I follow that the cantilever where your red circle is places extra stresses on the structure and this is really what I think I am trying to figure out how to combat?

Are the red lines i have in my picture between the posts do you think enough to provide that bracing between posts or do i need that additional bracing between the posts that are in the picture you have above?

Hinde site for next time, should i have sunk the posts in the footing?
 

Last edited by olson2334; 07-11-15 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 07-11-15, 08:46 AM
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As long as the cross members (you'll use two, I assume like the original) are tall enough, say 10", and bolted together, they will provide adequate bracing. The shorter the board, top to bottom, the less ability it has to combat that sway.


We built something similar, but a couple of swings, for a retirement village, and had to embed the posts in concrete, mainly for the sway factor of the residents swinging and causing that offset pressure.

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Old 07-11-15, 09:02 AM
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I like your swing that is very nice!

Originally i was going to use 2x8's is what I was thinking but with what i have seen and due to our chat here I might go with 2x10's in stead perhaps.

Maybe putting in a post where i have the number 1 in the image below would help with that potential sway you mention too? We hadn't originally had it in the plan but i certainly do not want to be concerned every time there is a thunderstorm or something or if we decide we want to put a swing or hammock up on it that it is going to fall over. Am i being overly concerned?

How about orientation of the bracket will that make much difference do you think? I was going to use some 2" coated screws are there better ones to aid in my issue to consider?

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Old 07-11-15, 09:10 AM
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Actually the more you add to one dimension, the more you will have potential inward sway. Using the 2x10's will help laterally. You won't use screws. You will be using 9" x 1/2" carriage bolts and washers in two places per 6x6 attachment point. Do you plan on a balustrade at the bottom, or a handrail? If not, you may have to do the yellow braces as you have pictured.

A swing or hammock between the posts is not a problem. Having the hammock attached on another plane will stress the post bases.

As for the braces, it would be stronger and look better if you used 6x6 pieces cut at 45 degrees, lag bolted to your vertical posts and carriage bolted to the cross members.
 
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Old 07-11-15, 09:42 AM
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I am not certain what you mean by one dimension i guess but will leave it off as we didn't want one there anyway.

No balustrade or handrail so will add those braces i had in my picture.

The brackets that I am referencing are the ones that attach the post to the concrete. (orange circle) Those I don't use carriage bolts do i? the holes are pretty darn small it seems on them. It was these that I was wondering too if the orientation mattered at all?

The 2x10's at the top i will use carriage bolts as you mention as well as the angles braces i have in the picture. That is correct right?

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Old 07-11-15, 09:46 AM
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Brackets, ie Post Bases will just be nailed with Simpson Strong Tie 2 1/2" galvanized #10 nails or screws. I would orient them to where the flange is facing inwardly. Not that it will withstand a hurricane, but it might

Yes bolt the heck out of this puppy for strength.
 
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Old 07-11-15, 09:56 AM
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Any tipped screw work or do the nails hold better to hold that post base to the post? always assumed screws held better but I am not an expert as you can already tell. going for as much strength as possible.

We are getting towards the end I am glad this doesn't seem to be show stopper.

A few more questions. For my yellow lines up there I was thinking another 6x6 but would a 2x6 work too if that look was better? Guessing for the strength the 6x6 is the obvious choice.

The middle post in the picture is a 10 foot 6x6 and it will support the east west orientation of the longest end and the north south orientation of the shorter piece on the far right of the picture. The north south will sit higher then the east west if that makes sense. Any concerns with this? Not sure if you could tell that from the pictures at all.
 

Last edited by olson2334; 07-11-15 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 07-11-15, 11:35 AM
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Simpson makes screws for their plates. They are in the same section as the nails. As for the bracing, you will be spanning a 5 1/2" space between the 2x bands, so a 2x lumber will look odd. A 6x6 cut at angles on both ends will hold much better and will allow you to use bolts.

No concerns about the differing elevations. What ever floats your boat, there. Yeah, I saw it, but figured you would cut the posts, but your plan is fine.
 
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Old 07-12-15, 03:47 AM
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Thanks again Chandler for all your help here.

One more thing, when you said to have the flange face inward you are talking have it face towards the patio in my picture right?

Also the angle bracing i am going to add using 6x6 posts (yellow lines) is there a suggested length to make them? I have also seen where the lags are place side by side vs top to bottom any difference in strength there for the angle braces?
 

Last edited by olson2334; 07-12-15 at 04:22 AM.
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Old 07-12-15, 04:43 AM
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Lengh of 6x6's is arbitrary, but you want to look good. I'd say at least 2' or so. You'll lag to the post, and bolt between the bands. Don't get too much on the brace facing. I was saying place the flange that you nail to to the inside for what little lateral support it will give.
 
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Old 07-17-15, 09:28 AM
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Hey Chandler,

I started putting some of this up today and have a few more questions if you don't mind.

I am sort of experimenting a bit with how wobbly it might be simply to see what I am up against. Corner post, no issue the one in question is the black circle. that one is wobbly. There is movement in the direction opposite the 2x10s. I haven't put the bracing in (yellow lines) nor have i actually bolted them together yet. Will this in your opinion improve much even after i get all that in? I am trying to figure out if not, what options do i have to fix this before getting that deep in to have to take it down?Name:  0711150731-sm.jpg
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Old 07-17-15, 01:11 PM
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There is some slight pull on either side of the metal bracket. For giggles i threw some of the 1/2 washers i have for my carriage bolts under each corner just to see if that would help at all and it did seem to help. I am wondering if i got something thicker if that would be even better. This a bad idea do you think or if there is a better way to fix this i am all ears too as I don't want this to be questionable if it will stand at each storm.
 
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Old 07-17-15, 01:16 PM
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You could experiment with fiber shims to see if that would stabilize it better. The end posts may surely be the weak link unless you build in a cross connector to help. You actually don't have any lateral sway stoppage. You have braced them to each other for that direction, but movement to the inside of the patio will be problematic unless you build in a brace.
 
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Old 07-17-15, 01:40 PM
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Thanks again @chandler.

I will check into fiber shims.

If it were you in this position what do you think you might do?

As far as the cross member goes could that be something that comes up on the post lets say 6"to hold it in place? What I am thinking is for the one i have circled could i do something similar they do with retaining walls to keep them from falling. Is it called a "deadman"? If so, would i need to dig another footing for that and anchor it to that some how? There is going to be a mound of dirt there I could hide this in perhaps.
 
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Old 07-17-15, 01:50 PM
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To keep your interior space free and eliminate an internal trip hazard, yes, I would consider something as simple as a cable to a ground anchor, attached about 4' up on the post. I think you will have enough weight to keep it offset to the inside, but a cable would help it from caving in.

PlayStar Playset Anchors-KT 76901 - The Home Depot
 
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Old 07-17-15, 02:03 PM
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how deep does the anchor need to go do you think? edit: sorry didn't even see your link to the playset anchors.

One other thought, my wife wants to put some stone block around the base of the post. could that work perhaps too to support this somehow?
 
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Old 07-17-15, 02:22 PM
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Stone around posts that may or may not move may not be the best idea. Once set, if the post moves, it will crack the stone, possibly causing failure.
 
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Old 07-21-15, 12:01 PM
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Hey Chandler, i started a new thread concerning a similar question but maybe i should have included it here perhaps. Hopefully i haven't over asked. Simply trying to come up with different ideas and options. The latest was joining the corner posts to make a triangle type pergola. Do you think that would lock these posts up or am i still going to be forced to anchor them using a cable or something like that like we have discussed above?

I am not sure I like the cable as I would have to put it up 4 feet and probably a good four feet back right so would have it pretty visible which is why i have been considering options. I was thinking the triangle option might work and I may like this better as I might get more shade from it.

Here is the other thread just in case. Should i have kept it going in this thread or started a new one as i did for future reference?
http://www.doityourself.com/forum/de...ml#post2440417
 
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