Deck railing post supports

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Old 12-27-16, 05:33 PM
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Deck railing post supports

Hi guys. A while ago i talked with you guys when I was thinking about building either a deck or patio. I decided on a deck and I'm just about done with the framing. I am working on railing posts right now and have 2 corners that are being a problem for me.

I can't figure out how to properly support these posts.

In the one picture with two posts, the one post is connected to the simpson support and it works out but the other post next to it is my problem. Should I go from the little chunk of wood in front to the joist to its right and just put in a corner bracket? I just don't think that'll be strong enough .

In that same picture you can see how I attached my face board and end joist, just with a corner bracket as well.

All other Joists are connected to the face board with joist hangers. Do I need to use those big header structural screws in the front of every joist to the board? Or are hangers good enough.

In the next picture you can see that there is a large gap between the simpson railing connector and the house-side board.

Again, I just don't know how to support it enough.

Again, should I just use a structural screw or a ledger lock type screw?

Thanks for your guys help,
David
 
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  #2  
Old 12-27-16, 05:55 PM
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You can use a block of wood behind the fastener, but be sure to send your framing screws all the way into the band for good support.

I"m not sure what you have in picture 2 as far as brackets is concerned.
 
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Old 12-27-16, 06:12 PM
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Hard to see what's going on in those pictures.
To close and taken in the dark.
First picture looks like carriage bolts at least 3" to long, no nuts, looks like hurricane ties were used to attach what looks like a joist 5-1/2" below the rim joist.
Second picture also makes no since, why are there two post? Why is there not just one set on the inside instead of the outside.
No one here has a crystal ball so we need to know the big picture on exactly what it is your trying to do.
No clue why you added that blocking.
 
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Old 12-27-16, 08:01 PM
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Anything bolted to the ledger board regardless of hardware/bracket is weak.

You want a good solid railing post use a Titan anchor. Use them for last build they are awesome!!!!!


Titan Building Products
 
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Old 12-27-16, 08:27 PM
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IMO, your posts are too close to the corner to do what you are trying to do. If you keep them about 12" away from the corners, you could put a piece of blocking between your two joists, then another piece of blocking perpendicular to that - between that first piece of blocking and the rim - to form a perfectly symetrical square in the corner. (To make... let's say a 9"x9" square opening) Then each post would have its own blocking for the lateral tension ties to fasten into. Then to do much good, you would fasten another lateral load tie opposite the first one, so that the blocking that is perpendicular to the direction of your joists can't just pull away along with the post. (Ties the post to 2 joists, not just one.)

see figures 25, 26 in DCA6.
 
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Old 12-28-16, 06:18 AM
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Thanks for the replies. I did the two posts on the corners because I liked the finished look of the ones I've seen like that. I didn't realize I was complicating things until it was time for the supports.

For the back corner single post I think ill just cut a piece of wood the thickness of the gap and just screw it to the rim and use the lateral load tie for that.

For the corner with the double posts, I'll try to keep it like it is and then add another load tie inside of the existing one perpendicular to it and add another block to the rim to attach the load tie.

Confusing wording but does this make sense?
 
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Old 12-30-16, 07:24 PM
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did an inspector make you put those lateral load ties on the rim joist for each rail post? Are those what's causing the problem? I've built many decks from 2003-2012ish and maybe only in a few instances if at all did the inspectors require lateral load connectors but pretty sure that was only required on the ledger board like you usually see. I know nowadays they are getting more strict with things like that and more likely to require them, but for the rim joist and those 4x4 rail posts, carriage bolted through is more than enough to meet the requirements for those posts, and they won't break or shift the deck or anything unless maybe you tell 10 people to push on that rail at once.
 
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Old 12-30-16, 07:36 PM
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it wont let me edit posts for some reason.

"All other Joists are connected to the face board with joist hangers. Do I need to use those big header structural screws in the front of every joist to the board? Or are hangers good enough"

the extra step you did to put joist hangers on the face (rim joist) is more than enough, that's also usually never required by code (but it is of course required where the other end of the joist meets the house of instead of just toe nailing it with nails [which I have seen people do and is very wrong]).

Side note, if it's a free-standing deck and has another beam a couple feet away from the house, you can probably get away with not needing joist hangers at all.

You don't need to put 'big header structural screws' through the fascia board (rim joist) into the ends of joists. The joist hangers is more than enough, and those structural bolts can split the wood. If you haven't already though you can put 4 or 5 nails in each joist's end nailed through the rim joist. But with the joist hangers still probably a waste of time.

it seems as though you're worried that some force is going to push the front rail away from the house and break the entire front rail and rim/fascia joist off the deck, which just is never going to happen. Since you already put the lateral load brackets on the front though, as you said, just fill the void behind that one and then predrill it and put a zinc coated lag bolt through it using a regular hand ratchet or an impact drill if you have one of those. If the space is too tight to fit a 2x in there, put a bunch of zinc washers, or just leave it as air but still with a bolt I think should still be fine.
 
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Old 12-31-16, 04:33 AM
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zinc coated lag bolt through it
Must be Hot Dipped Galvanized...not zinc.

get away with not needing joist hangers at all.
All band and beam attachment of joists will require joist hangers.

I think you need to read up on prescriptive deck building a little. This will keep you busy. http://www.awc.org/pdf/codes-standar...Guide-1405.pdf
 
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Old 12-31-16, 04:43 PM
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Ok now I see why this guy put joist hangers on the rim joist, but it's overkill IMHO since he also used lateral hardware for each post.
I built decks for ~9 years and joist hangers were never required for rim joists (maybe once or twice with a picky inspector I don't remember), that's why it popped out to me as overkill. However, we put 4x4 rail posts on the inside of the rim joist, not on the outside like this guy's. When the 4x4 is inside the frame, one side of it attaches to a joist's side (or a system of blocks attached to the joist if it doesn't happen to line up exactly).

When 4x4s are inside the frame and you push on the front handrail, there's much more holding it than only the front row of decking, and the nails (no threads) holding the rim to the ends of the joists. The corners of the front rail are however tied into the side handrails strongly if the 4x4s are installed outside of the rim joist.

There's a certain amount of weight for code a handrail needs to hold when pushed, and even without the lateral connectors and with the 4x4s on the outside, it should pass requirements by far, but over time nails can loosen so, yes, with 4x4s on the outside, one should put lateral connectors. But other than that I think it's a waste of time and material to put all joist hangers also. The actual handrail itself would likely break first if just using lateral load connectors and no hangers.




I stand corrected about the blanket statement 'zinc plated' for ACQ lumber (any PT used after around 2004). Yes with ACQ, steel needs to be at least 'hot dipped galvanized'. HDG is a zinc coating but is bathed in hot zinc instead of electroplating the zinc on or other galvanizing methods that don't give enough protection.
 
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Old 12-31-16, 04:59 PM
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I only see a joist hanger on a joist attached to a rim, which is required. The corner posts are being attached by using supplemental DTT's as provided by Simpson. He is just having to adapt it a little.
 
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