Paslode cordless framing CF325XP "%15 stronger". Testimony?

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Old 03-19-17, 06:00 PM
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Paslode cordless framing CF325XP "%15 stronger". Testimony?

Basically I'm between a compressor framing and finish set up or a cordless paslode framing and finish guns.
I've used the older paslode cordless guns a lot and never really had a problem with them as long as they're clean and lubed. Pneumatics I never really used but they both have some pros and cons. Basically I think I'd be happier with cordless though (cost more for fuel etc but no need to lug compressor around, and I don't need a compressor for anything else, and dont' have to worry about compressor cycling while cutting and tripping the electrical breaker, and no compressor hose tangling etc, and I don't need fast bump fire mode of a pneumatic).

The new(ish) CF325XP Paslode claims to be %15 stronger. And it shoots at 14 degrees farenheit and can shoot many thousands of nails per battery charge. The older non lithium guns can also shoot down to 18 degrees when using the All Season fuel cell and can also shoot thousands (I think 9K) nails per charge, so the only reason I see to possiby get the $350 CF325XP is if it's really %15 stronger or if that's just some sort of *under perfect conditions type thing that doesn't really relate to normal usage. (Paslode doesn't answer emails)
FWIW, I won't be shooting hard LVL beams or anything like that, just kiln dried douglas fir and PT southern yellow pine, both of which I've shot thousands of nails with the older paslode (not %15 stronger) without proud nails or problems for the most part.

In other words, I can get a nice condition used older paslode like in the picture for about $125 with case, battery and charger. Hopefully if anything, all it might need somewhat soon is an o ring replacement and clean and lube. O ring kit is only $7, the Paslode spray and oil is only $15 total and probably enough to clean it 4 times (every 50K shots it recommends to clean and lube which is a lot, but I'll keep the air filter clean more frequently), and a new spark plug is $9. And there's a spring inside that tutorial videos say needs to be bent eventually in order to make the fan turn on well. Hopefully that's all it ever needs and not something like a new spark unit (not just the plug), but if it stops working and cost more than I'd like to fix, I can just sell it as-is and basically break even.. And if it's not working when I get it, I'll get it returned or get a refund of the return shipping cost if I prefer. Basically, I'm just saying eventually hopefully all I need to fix are the cheap parts mentioned previously. a pneumatic seems more bullet proof and just drip oil in each use and shoot away but I think I want a cordless more.

As long as the older gun has the quick depth adjust on the nose like the picture model, and not the older one that needs a hex screw, I think it should be fine. Has anyone have a lot of experience with both the older version and the CF325XP and think it's actually worth spending double for the new(ish) CF325XP being "%15 more powerful", or should I just get the older version?
 
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Old 03-19-17, 06:03 PM
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FORGOT PIC OF OLDER GUN REFERING TO

 
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Old 03-20-17, 12:15 AM
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I still can't decide. New CF325XP with 2 year service promise (paslode will pay to and from shipping no questions asked for any repairs - you can even skip cleaning and oiling it for those 2 years and just have them do it free) then it gets 3 more years warranty but is just for the orange shell parts. But maybe the internals are just better than the older ones and less prone to moisture damage etc.

Or just get the older one like in the photo for $125ish.

Or the pneumatic set up and not have to worry about babying it like a cordless dissembling it and cleaning and oiling it or making sure I have spare fuel cells.


I kind of want both, actually all three, cf325xp and test it myself vs the older ones and then the pneumatic for the ease of just dripping oil in the inlet and shooting and not babying it like a cordless. But the compressor I would get is oil-less and they eventually break but would take a while and I can get a nice bostitch 6 gal 150 psi for 99 brand new shipped and if it ever breaks just sell as-is for $25 loss. From what I've read, I'm actually more faithful in the cordless paslodes in cold weather vs a pneumatic/compressor.
 
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Old 03-20-17, 04:47 AM
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Quite a few years ago I was going through the same dilemma you are now. I finally went with pneumatic because having a compressor was going to give me more future options and I didn't like the idea of dealing with batteries and fuel cells. As it turned out, it was the right decision for me. I started out with just a framing nailer and finish nailer. Now I have a palm nailer, pin nailer, stapler (small), blower, air chisel, impact wrench and tire inflater. All those later purchases were relatively cheap once I had the compressor. I haven't used it a lot in cold weather, but when I have, it's been fine; in fact, I see carpenters using the pneumatics all winter long here. I will admit that there have been a couple times that I have wished I had the cordless nailers. In fact, I almost bought a Paslode a couple years ago, but the wife "talked me out of it"!!
 
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Old 03-20-17, 05:07 AM
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Personally I couldn't imagine not having an air compressor. I've occasionally used compressors in below freezing temps and the only issue I ever had was the pop off valve going off .... and once the compressor built up some heat that issue went away.
 
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Old 03-20-17, 10:39 PM
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blah long again

true, about the winter and pneumatics, I read something like the condensation from the motor heat could cause problems but I dunno, something about never leave the compressor indoors in warmth and run hose outside thinking it would be better. They do have winter oil that you drip into the gun (some are already 'all season' so you don't have to buy a separate winter oil). And I read to add oil into the lines. There's a home builder on youtube that did a few reviews on harbor freight framing guns and how he likes them, and he says it's 10 degrees F and he puts alcohol in the line which I couldn't find any other info about. I would think alcohol would hinder the lubrication of the gun's o ring oil. And I think to coat the whole hose with pneumatic tool oil would take a lot. Maybe it's fine with just winter oil in the actual gun I dunno, no experience with it. I read to prime the gun in winter by shooting it on really low PSI without nails but many guns are made to not shoot without nails.


I hear ya on the compressor tools. I was thinking about a palm nailer but can't be persuaded to not just stick to hand nailing instead. Other than that, I already have or don't need the other tools, a chipper hammer would be nice for basement window replacements but I can get an electric bosch bulldog for about $70 on ebay. Pneumatic tools are bullet proof if lubed, much less parts to break, no motor brushes, cords fraying etc.


I think my decision to go with an orange cordless framing and finish guns boiled down to worrying about cutting while the compressor cycles and tripping the breaker, or standing around 30 seconds for it to cycle and then proceeding to cut if you catch it right away and stop cutting. But I borrowed a compressor and finish nailer a few times and despite how many cuts you gotta make to trial and error miter saw cuts for moulding, I didn't really notice this problem but it happened during deck building now and then.




decided back to the orange gun, not pneumatic. If a 6 gal 150psi were enough to shoot paint, I'd probably jump all over the pneumatic set up but it can't paint, way to small, better off getting an electric paint gun from what I read, and I don't need a compressor for anything else really. 30lb compressor is nothing and most people can curl that like it's nothing, but a compressor and hoses is another thing taking up storage space, and tripping the breaker while cutting is basically the deal breaker, plus the potential to tangle the cord although I use a screw gun a lot and never really tangle. I was going to try and get into the habit of flicking the power off and on while cutting but would be able to have the somewhat loud compressor far away with 50' cord which would mean too much walking back and forth between the saw and compressor.


For the orange gun, I dunno. I might get both the older and the new cf325xp and just see if the cf325xp is really worth it.

FWIW, if I were to get a pneumatic, I think the paslode compact framing gun is the best for most people, and surprised there are no other compact non-coil guns. I just hate the long magazine on all other guns which holds two sticks of nails but gets in the way IMHO and the compact holds one stick like the orange guns which is fine for framing and not sheathing/decking a lot. The compact paslode can be had for around $105 sometimes in decent condition on ebay or ~$180 new and then a bostitch or ridged 6 gallon 150 psi for 105$ish new shipped and then a finish gun I'd get 18 gauge for literally $15 at harbor fright although it doesn't have an anti mar rubber tip but I guess rubber can be glued to the tip if it's a problem. 18 Gauge good enough to shoot prehung doors up and then put 6 finish head screws in each jamb and putty over, or use those EZ door hanger brackets for ~$5 a door no need for shims or nail gun.



in case it helps anyone else deciding, might as well also add how I decided not to get the dewalt all-battery dcn692 framing gun or an all-battery finish gun. They have rubber bands inside that stretch eventually and tons of parts (check youtube a gun takes the ryobi finish gun apart), many parts which are probably hard to find and hard to diagnose problems vs paslode already has a decent amount of fix tutorial videos. Not to mention the all battery finish guns are gigantic and could be a problem in tight areas. The DCN692 is nice if you can get a lot of use out of it before something breaks and you don't know how to fix it, but worth mentioning a review I saw on it vs paslode showed it to be much worse than the paslode in cold weather despite delwalt's claim that it's great in cold weather.

There is also the potential for lack of power with dcn692, and paslode orange has much better overall home depot and amazon review stars.
 
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Old 03-21-17, 02:33 AM
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I think all I'm wondering is the simple question I was originally going to ask which is, about how many framing nails would I get to shoot before the a 6 gallon 150 psi compressor cycles?

To conserve air, I'd set the nail gun's depth as deep as it can go while using the lowest psi as opposed to 'wasting' air by having the gun depth not as deep but needing more PSI to sink nails.

And, how long (30 seconds?) does it take for a 6 gallon compressor to fill using 110(ish) psi?

If not shooting and just leaving the compressor under pressure, how often will it cycle to maintain pressure? (even when not using, it apparently looses pressure and needs to cycle up again).

there are times (no electric) I may need all cordless but usually not, and if so, I'll just have to buy a paslode(s). But if it's not so bad with the 6 gallon cycling, then I'll probably just go with pneumatic. I don't know why this is so hard for me to decide that I almost am buying both.

FWIW, I checked youtube for a good hour or so skimming though framing of garages and sheds and decks etc trying to see how many shots they get before the compressor cycles and what size compressor but I couldn't actually find any examples.

I know it happened at least a few times while building decks, a pneumatic nailer was only ever used to shoot down decking now and then, the main framing was always done with a cordless paslode, and if the chop box were used while the compressor cycled (pretty sure a 4 gallon), you have to stop cutting real quick or the power would trip on the power strip.
 
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Old 03-21-17, 04:04 AM
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The larger the tank the longer you can use a compressor before it will cut back on. Nail guns take very little air compared to other pneumatic tools. Paint guns, grinders and sanders require the most cfm. You can buy an oiler that mists oil into the compressed air negating the need to oil the tool. I never use them because once an oiler is used with an air hose you can no longer use that hose for painting. IMO it's no big deal to add 2-3 drops of oil to the tool twice a day [if used all day]

How often the compressor will cycle when not being used depends on how tight it is. The more air it leaks, the quicker it will turn back on. My 60 gallon compressor stays full of air. While I drain off the water from the bottom after a day's use, I never release all the air. The tank will have within a pound or two of the same psi the next day [or week] when I go to use it. I do close the valve stopping air flow to the lines.

Whenever feasible it's best to have the air compressor on a separate circuit.
 
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Old 03-21-17, 04:53 PM
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I still might end up with a compressor including cordlesses, so thanks for the suggestion of the inline oiler/mister, that should coat the hose well in winter.

I'm quite set now on just getting a cf325XP new, and for the finish gun, an 18 gauge Ryobi 18volt all-battery gun for around $120ish possibly new with battery and charger. Home depot had that sale a few weeks ago.

I didn't want an all-battery because as I mentioned, fixing them could be impossible with the lack of tutorials on them and parts available but I figure vs a paslode, if the Ryobi breaks I'll sell it as-is for a ~$40 loss would negate the costs of 4 paslode fuel cells plus paslode spray and oil. Then I'd get a paslode or another Ryobi depending on how well it performed before breaking. I just hope it can shoot 1.75" into metal track and age-hardened studs.


this way, I get all cordless in exchange for better reliability , lower cost, and max power of a pneumatic, but that's the trade off to not deal with a compressor and hoses..
 
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Old 03-25-17, 12:43 AM
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sorry last post about this and I'm done. Just wanted to finalize in case others search out paslode vs pneumatic framing nailer. Or CF325XP vs older paslodes or dewalt DCN692

True it's twice the price for a CF325XP vs a used older version but it's only $100 more if used, so I'd go with CF325XP. Can get a lightly used older one like in the picture for $120 but for $100 more can sometimes find a lightly used CF325XP combo, or for $200 more just get a brand new cf325xp. I called paslode (because they don't answer short simple emails for whatever reason) and they said if it's from an authorized distributor, the 2 year service promise warranty applies (ridgid etc has some thing where not only do they have to be an authorized distributor but there's only a small list of them that you'll get warranty with [always note though shipping weight and size because something like a generator warranty is useless because you'd have to pay to and from shipping for most warranties unless you happen to live near a warranty center which is rare]). And if they're not an authorized vendor and are lying on ebay, you can likely get a good % of the price refunded after figuring that out. With a new (but not refurbisehd, even paslode factory-direct refurb), you get 2 year warranty on all parts, even cleaning and lubing and paslode will pay to and from shipping if you aren't up to the task of a simple cleaning they'll probably do it if you simply describe it as 'not working as good'.

About the CF325XP being %15 stronger, maybe that's under perfect conditions you'll never realize, but maybe not. I didn't bother asking the paslode rep about that, of course he would just say yea it's %15 stronger as per our records. I'd bet the internals are better on the newer cf325xp at least, better circuitry etc. If you're doing one small deck/basement/shed etc, then the $120~ gun should suit you fine but if you plan to keep it, I'd spend the extra $100-$200.


The Ryobi P320 all-battery 18 gauge brad finish gun gets great reviews, 4.5 of 5 stars out of like 650 reviews on home depot means it's good. I saw a video the guy shot 2" brads into 3" hard oak, and only one nail of about 5 was slightly proud which I think means it would be fine with age-hardened 2x's or metal track framing. Those ryobis go for ~$75 like-new plus a battery is like $20 and a $15 charger. Hoem Depot had it the other week for $120 with batt and charger. They also had for $199 the 18GA brad gun, two batts, charger, worklight, circular saw and sawsall, all of which I don't need though. When the parts break down eventually on the battery brad gun, sell it for a small loss would be less than the cost of paslode fuel cells plus not having to clean the ryobi with paslode brand spray and oil (paslode specifically warns not to just use wd-40 or 3in1 oil).

I really want to like the Dewalt DCN692 framing gun but I don't think it's powerful enough and reviews say it also jams a lot. Some guy did a rather extensive video of the DeWalt vs paslode (and a bunch of discountinued/obsolete paslode-type gas framing guns like the makita, hittachi etc), and says the dcn692 was by far the worst in 20 degrees F, it needed much priming and warming up, (probably was jamming and/or leaving most of the nail sticking out). Dewalt claims it works in cold temperatures "where gas cartridges fail" but note that paslode's newish all-season fuel cell truly does shoot with all paslode models at 18 degrees F, and the CF325XP at 14F).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsmxcbT5Q8E
Gas/Cordless Framing Nailer Head to Head - Tool Box Buzz Tool Box Buzz
The segment with the hard LVL beam using 3.25" (and 3.5" for the guns that fit 3.5") .131 bright smooth shank (bright sinks easier than HDG nails, and smooth also does vs ring [but the easier a nails sinks, the less it holds]). With that LVL beam test, paslode and hitachi tied, but none sunk the nails fully or consistently. You can see paslode sinking at least a few nails fully (gotta press down on the gun the whole time I guess is why the photo shows ~%5 of the nails flush and good but the rest are very proud for whatever reason). Note the paslode maxes at 3.25" and the dewalt and hitachi were shooting 3.5". If you look at the LVL he doesn't mention the dewalt section only shot like 10 nails and then they wrote 'JAM' on the beam and gave up with the DCN692.

The comparison focuses too much on things like ergonomics, battery life etc and I rather were more about power to actually sink nails or not.

They did a test 3.25" and 3.5" .131 smooth bright nails with 3/4" OSB on 3.5" LVL studs and said they all sunk them fine, so I dunno why those lvl studs (or who even uses LVL studs, engineered I-joists sure, but not studs) sunk ok but not the lvl beam, possibly a much different density between lvl 2x4s and a 12"+ beam, and/or shooting the 1.5" side of the engineered stud means the grain accepts nails better than face nailing.
Paslode makes PowerBoost black coated bright interior smooth shank nails that are specifically said to sink the best in LVL, so maybe that would help, but they only sell them in small combo packs with a fuel cell.

I would liked to have seen more common framing tests of doubled 2xs of kiln dried (not soft wet Pressure treated) vs .131 3.25" ring, smooth, and HDG. And shooting into knots (is there some code against fastening into knots? "... Loose knots, knots that would interfere with nailing, and other defects that ..." - possibly, but it happens). There are some youtube examples of 3.25" or 3.5" nails with the DCN692 but they weren't very consistent if they did sink at all.

IMHO the DCN692 is potentially buying a problem. Give it a couple years, and dewalt or someone will likely perfect an all-battery framing gun though. They probably don't have to make it too too much bigger/heavier even if they use the same concept as the current DCN692 to make it strong enough (minus the cold weather problems though), so even if it has to be almost gigantic, it's nice to only need a couple batteries although the genuine dewalt batteries are like $85 each and will eventually eventually need replacing. But then possibly need to sell the gun as-is when the internals weaken because good luck fixing the 100 parts inside with no tutorials or possibly even parts available vs a paslode. But the more people buy them, the more likely people will figure out how to fix them plus more demand for replacement parts.


Pneumatics are the most reliable and powerful and no need to disasemble and clean and lube them every ~40K shots like a paslode (but should clean the paslode air filter sooner IMHO but isn't hard to do). After many thousands of nails might need to replace a pneumatic's o rings and gasket especially if you don't lube it with every use or forget to use winter oil in the gun when it's cold, but that's way less frequent to need to disasemble it and reaplce parts vs cleaning a gas paslode especially if you don't have dirt in the pneumatic hose the O-rings should last a long time.

Personally I'm still between a pneumatic framing or paslode, or both. I think I'd still get the ryobi battery brad nailer even if I get a pneumatic set up just for the ease of no hose or loud compressor indoors for a small project and I'm not worry if the ryobi is underpowered based on reviews and tests.

I do think pneumatics are the most dangerous. There are lots of nail gun accident videos, plenty are from cordless guns though. Personally, I'm a very safe worker, knock on wood. I never felt unsafe with a cordless paslode or pneumatic finish gun (if anything I'm more worried the compressor's going to blow up!). I don't do anything stupid like shoot super fast to try and sound like I'm installing asphalt shingles. Safety glasses like second nature. Keep hands well away from the gun and never have a body part in line with the shot as much as feasable and assuming that the nail could go right through the wood due to a split or deflect from a knot or a knot hole or bounce etc.


So, it can be a tough decision. A small project is nice to have a cordless and not carry a compressor and hose. But if it's that small of a project, might as well hand nail it. Personally I kind of like hand nailing. Some things require nails and not screws keep in mind you can't always just put screws with an electric drill, but thin 1/4" lag bolts predrilled can probably be used in place of nails. But if you're building a small deck platform or something (screwing the decking is best even if wood, so that phase omits the nail gun), or installing one retrofit door with a load bearing header and king and jack studs, there's times like the first toe nail to hold the stud in place if it's not a very snug fit, sucks to hand nail stuff like that or a wobbly beginning of a frame, better to just shoot it. You can put a screw to hold it but I mean might as well just shoto it and shoot the rest. You can, but you can't really hand nail trim moulding as well or effeciently as shooting it so I would at least get the $125 ryobi but for ~$50 more you can get a new shipped 6 gal 150 psi compressor and a pneumatic brad gun and then a framign gun for ~150 more (or a harbor fright framing for $66) and any other pneumatic tools you want, plus a $20 hose and $5 in oil. I'm leaning more towards pneumatic but there's times with no electricity I need cordless but I don't want to have a pile of tools but still might get the pneumatic now and the cordless when/if needed. Fin.
 
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Old 03-25-17, 03:37 AM
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OK, you are back to writing diatribes again. PLEASE limit your questions. I think this particular subject has been adequately covered. No one is reading your posts because they are too long and rambling.
 
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Old 03-25-17, 04:30 AM
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Aside from maybe tripping on the air hose I don't see how pneumatic nailer would be any more/less dangerous than cordless.
 
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Old 03-25-17, 05:42 AM
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No one is reading your posts because they are too long and rambling.
Dont read the short ones either, they all eventually lead to this.
 
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Old 03-26-17, 12:44 AM
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not really always this long are my posts, this was kind of a psychoticly long ramble but I honestly think there's some good tidbits in there for others in same situation.
 
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Old 03-26-17, 05:09 AM
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Tidbits are what we are looking for, not the words in between. We have had the discussion via Private message before. Limit your posts. The forums is here to help with questions or problems, not allowing you to blog, so you could be in violation of forum rules to begin with. Just a word of caution.
 
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Old 03-27-17, 05:43 AM
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I can't believe I'm writing more on this thread but you can delete the thread if you want. I bought a new cf325XP. I would really only need a pneumatic for tons of sheathing or building a house or something. Cleaning it more often and ~$10 for gas per 900 shots is well worth the portability.

I just realized why I even asked the thread title in the first place. The ~$13 All Season orange fuel cells 816008 is what paslode says to use for the cf325xp. Those cells come with an adapter cap to use in any older gun (when cold out). But the ~$17 double pack cheaper red cells for older guns (except when cold out) don't have an adapter cap to use in a cf325xp.

I was wondering if anyone knew if I could use the red cells in the cf325xp (with the adapter cap from buying at least one orange). I know it would fit but I don't know if it is optimal gas for the cf325xp, and also maybe that's the "15% stronger" claim because only the orange cell makes it %15 stronger.

So I will just do a side by side because although it's only a few bucks, I know I'd rather just grab the dual pack of cells for almost half the price (or cheaper and not expired on ebay sometimes) of orange cells as long as it's not winter.

In other words, "can I use the red fuel cells in a cf325, and will it perform as well as an orange cell if not winter time"?. I'll figure that out. The end (actual end).
 
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Old 03-27-17, 05:50 AM
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you know, I try and edit these things, but I just can't on a ~$3,000 pc even when there's time left to edit.

This forum just doesn't like IE11 and I just don't like chrome which I guess would allow me to actually edit.

I was just going to edit wondering if the red fuel cell would actually damage the cf325xp or not, which I will try and find out.
 
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Old 03-27-17, 04:23 PM
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Your last sentence in post 16 was all we needed. See? Don't worry about editing what you have already written, just shorten up on future posts. No one reads them and they border on blogging. If I were the moderator of this forum, I would have deleted them and possibly taken corrective action to prevent them from happening, but I'm not.
 
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Old 03-31-17, 01:48 PM
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ok ok the actual actual end of thead:

I called paslode to ask if you can use a red fuel (about half the price) in a CF325XP (supposed to use orange cell). I knew you can put a red cap on an orange (cold weather) to use in any older paslode, so I figured you could use an orange cap on a red cell to use in the CF325XP.

I asked if that would possibly damage the gun. I said I had a bunch of left over reds but got the new cf325xp and wanted to know before using them. I didn't say I just wanted to save %50, I think they were being truthful.

The girl said something like she thinks the orange has a specific composition for the new CF325Xp (but will still obviously work in an older gun but didn't think it would be optimal if done vice versa, I guess not enough power). She double checked with the fuel engineer, he told her it can't be done because A) one or the other has a black ring/seat and even if you remove it and put in the other, it won't all lock together, and B) one or the other has a thicker spout on the fuel cell where the gas comes out and only works one way but can't use an orange cap on a red. Both reasons mean there will be small leak/less gas being available and thus not optimal performance (possibly even poor performance).

there you have it, possibly everything you'd ever want to know about cf325xp vs older models vs pneumatic.
 
 

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