Herringbone pattern

Reply

  #1  
Old 09-15-17, 08:14 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Herringbone pattern

I want to use a herringbone pattern like the attached for my deck. (2 X 6 PT). Greatly hoping one of you experts can help me understand the best way to begin the first course.

Thanks!
 
Attached Images  
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 09-15-17, 08:40 AM
M
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: USA - N.E.Tn
Posts: 47,550
Received 301 Votes on 267 Posts
I'm far from the expert on this but I suspect you'd need the floor joists to be closer to accommodate the longer span of each deck board.
 
  #3  
Old 09-15-17, 10:27 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25,853
Received 644 Votes on 596 Posts
I don't think you have probably thought about how much backing is needed for a herringbone layout. You pretty much need each joist to be doubled, because if you don't, one of the pair of herringbone boards will only be resting on the tip... (as you have pictured) and it will likely split from fastening it so close to the end.

Herringbone is fine for an interior floor... pretty impractical for a deck unless you specifically frame for it.

Here is an example. http://www.homedepot.com/c/building_...esign_HT_PG_BM
 
  #4  
Old 09-15-17, 10:55 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 23,498
Received 601 Votes on 555 Posts
My wife loves herringbone pattern and talked me into it once. If you do decide to go with it really get yourself in the right mental attitude for the amount of work required. It can be extremely labor intensive and will not be a quick and easy project like laying straight deck planks. If your first row and all your material widths and cut lengths aren't perfect it can get to be a real nightmare the further you progress with the pattern.
 
  #5  
Old 09-15-17, 12:08 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I am using 4X6 joists at 12" OC. That should be sufficient, no?
 
  #6  
Old 09-15-17, 12:11 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Joists are 4X6 @ 12" OC. Also Using four doubled 2X8's for Simpson DTT1Z direct tension ties as well.
 
  #7  
Old 09-15-17, 12:38 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25,853
Received 644 Votes on 596 Posts
I would start by snapping a grid of chalk lines on the framing in both directions that are both parallel and square. The purpose being that it is critical that the inside corners of the Herringbone pattern follow each chalk line.... and that each chalk line is parallel (so your lengths do not change). The other lines will reference the pattern as it progresses across the deck so that you dont get one too far ahead of another (which will happen unless you make minor adjustments to the spacing between planks as you go).

I would probably start at the center of the deck between 2 chalk lines, establish the pattern across the entire width of the deck with a single herringbone row, then simply work down either side of that center row. But I would only do a few rows vertically at a time then work left or right and complete the pattern horizontally.

Unless you have a band board around the perimeter, let all edge boards hang over long. Once the decking is complete, chalk a line and cut with a skilsaw and finish blade. Then use the palm router and roundover bit.
 
  #8  
Old 09-15-17, 01:09 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Tha ks for the help, X Sleeper.

I am taking my cue from this article, with the following adjustments:

https://www.thisoldhouse.com/how-to/...ringbone-floor

1. The width of the lumber is 5.5", but with a 1/8" spacer on each side, it's actually (5.5 + (1/2 * 1/8) + (1/2 * 1/8), or 5 5/8". This is for purposes of figuring the board length. As you know, board length must be an even multiple of width, and deck boards must fall over three joists.

Multiply 5-5/8" that by 6 to come up with the board length: 33-3/4. Sound right?

2. From there on I am assuming it's like an interior job. No frame boards around the edges so cut 'em off as you describe.

The hard part will be drawing the centerline and the two working lines over a joist, and doing your grid. But I think I can do that by laying a 6"-wide piece of plywood on top of the centermost joist and using a small drill bit for marks, or cutting the plywood away as I go.

Using a sight line in the middle of the slider window as a central visual reference point. From sketchup it appears that the herringbone will be fairly centered, so I don't have to worry about stubs at the ends.



Where are the likeliest places I'll screw up?
 
  #9  
Old 09-15-17, 01:18 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Good advice Pilot Dane! I like XSleeper's approach for damage control. A lot of trammelling.
 
  #10  
Old 09-15-17, 08:51 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25,853
Received 644 Votes on 596 Posts
33 3/4" is close. If you chalk lines that are 24" on center down each 4x6 joist (you do this because you will follow the chalk lines as you go - not the framing, since it may not be perfect- and you can make them parallel even if a joist is bowed) and each piece spans 3 joists (thus 24" on center) each piece would be 33 15/16" long minus 1/8" (subtracted from one end only, because the other end is going to be flush with the side edge of the mating perpendicular piece) . So I would say 33 13/16". (Using Pythagorean method to figure the hypotenuse of a triangle with sides of 24".)

33 3/4 may give you a little more wiggle room however. What you may find is that your pt wood will shrink in width, but not in length, which may create some goofy gaps as it dries.

Herringbone would look great with IPE or Trex because it isn't going to shrink after its installed.

The grid isn't hard... first check the deck for square by comparing the diagonals. If it's out of square you might want to adjust your chalk lines to hide it, perhaps by creating more overlap at your overhang on one side less on another... it's good to know that in advance because you might want to cheat your chalk lines down the joists one way or another slightly to hide any taper at the edge. Chalk all your lines down the joists next, ensure every line down each joist is parallel and 24" on center. Then using 3:4:5, (or 9:12:15, etc) make one perpendicular line down the middle of the deck. Start your herringbone layout on that perpendicular line... which will mark the peak of each "^" across the deck.

And I would make a pair of small 2 3/4" triangle jigs (cut from scrap) to extend each end of your 33 3/4" long board to meet the chalk line on either side (kind of like a parallelogram). As long as you keep repeatedly doing the exact same thing with the jigs, centering it on the chalk lines, and gapping 1/8" as you go, you can't go wrong.

You would just need to chalk additional perpendicular lines as correction rows as needed to make sure all the "^'s" continue to line up perfectly. It wouldn't take long for an incremental error (created by your gaps and variation in board width) to show up and Jack with your mind.
 
  #11  
Old 09-15-17, 09:18 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25,853
Received 644 Votes on 596 Posts
I guess I should add that you might want to double check the layout of your initial row with a framing square or a 2x2 piece of plywood to ensure each one is perfectly square... that your lengths are going to work, etc. before you fasten them.
 
  #12  
Old 09-19-17, 02:28 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
You are BRILLIANT and a hell of a nice guy. I would buy you a beer or six if you were near me.

I will read this slowly and digest it, but just wanted to get back to you with gratitude. Where else could I get such great advice on anything?

The lumber is Home Depot hemfir copper azole crap. .21 chemical retention. It has been drying in the sun a few weeks (stacked with firring above and below each row of boards) so it might have dried out.

I am going to lay tar paper on top of each joist so that should give me a nice writing surface for the grid. my joists are truly checking out at 12 OC but I still don't trust 'em. Also got a pair of trammels

The variation in width is a shot out of hell. For four joistgs I am sistering 2X8s in order to get a joist to the bottom of the ledger. (The interior floor joists are parallel with the ledger, and I need to get to the top plate to tie in the DTT1Zs for shear.) Sistering should be easy...but not if your Home DogFood 2X8's show 1/4 inch variation in height.

So now I will go outside to my lumber stack and see how bad the with variance is on the decking 2X6s. Might have to abandon ship on the herringbone. Maybe I will have done 4X6 and 12" OC joists all for nothing and will need to go with a traditional design. Or maybe a big chevron. Ipe is out of my pay class.

I'll let you know.

THANKS AGAIN!!
 
  #13  
Old 09-19-17, 02:47 PM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25,853
Received 644 Votes on 596 Posts
Glad to help!

You might want to buy yourself a quart of Anchorseal 2. Brush all your cut ends with it to help reduce end checking.

Also, dont be afraid to return the crap you cull from your pile if you end up sorting through it.
 
  #14  
Old 09-21-17, 10:47 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I have used anchorseal before. It's kind of milky-white, right? Good stuff.

I could write a book about what I went through at Home Dogs**t. I culled every board myself and put it in will-call for delivery. A week late they delivered totally different lumber, and replaced my 4X6's with 4X4s. I sent it back. They misled me about the availability of 4X6X20 ("we don't carry those") but the delivery guy told me he delivers them all the time. Then they screwed up the special order. Were gonna deliver it to an address 90 miles north. Came another week late. Double-billed me. THere's a lot more. I will spare you. Next time I'll spend the $ and go to a real lumberyard.

Anyway, XSleeper, do you think I am a fool to attempt herringbone with PT, even if I measure every 5 seconds?
 
  #15  
Old 09-21-17, 11:02 AM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Just talked to Anchorseal. You might know this, but they have a new product for decks called Seal Once. Six months post construction, when the wood has cured, you powerwash the Achorseal the ends of the boards that are exposed at the end joists and rim joist, and apply it there. They say it seals everything better there, forever. Just FYI.
 
  #16  
Old 09-21-17, 11:17 AM
XSleeper's Avatar
Group Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 25,853
Received 644 Votes on 596 Posts
I think it's risky. I have seen treated lumber decks that started out spaced with just a nail shrink to the point where there is a 3/8" gap between them. You just never know. I guess if it all shrinks evenly you may not have much to worry about. The worst that would happen is that the butt joints may appear a little tighter than the field joints that lay side to side.

I would be very tempted to edge plane the boards that are 1/4" wide... or at least sort the lumber into piles of equal width, so that if you have a few boards that are 7 1/2, you could use them in the same continuous row all the way across. Keeping the 7 1/4, 7 3/8, 7 1/2 separate would be a challenge but you could do it. Then all you have to worry about is shrinkage.

I'd be worried about all the herringbone butt joints getting sealed during assembly... not just the perimeter.
 
  #17  
Old 09-21-17, 12:57 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorting = Great idea.

I will be sealing everything (25 ' ^2/qt.) .
 
  #18  
Old 10-31-17, 09:22 PM
D
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 123
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks to everyone who helped me with the herringbone decking

Especially @xsleeper and @pilotdane. IIt came out pretty well, I think. Especially for PT hemfir. Might have to plane it now and then, but I think it'll hold up.
 
Attached Images  
  #19  
Old 11-01-17, 04:38 AM
P
Group Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 23,498
Received 601 Votes on 555 Posts
Wow! The deck came out great. Good job! No many people have the patience to follow through on such a tedious project or the skills to make it work.
 
Reply
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description: