Ridge joist off square... help

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  #41  
Old 01-31-18, 07:01 AM
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Only 8 degrees right now, if it warms up a little I'll go out and move things around. In your other post you mentioned:
Looking down at your drawing, garage to the right, those shifts would be.
1. Wall 1 to 3 down "
2. Wall 2 to 4 up "
3. Wall 1 to 4 to the right "
4. Wall 2 to 3 to the left "
My rim box is already nailed together, do I just slid it in those directions and hit the corners to the left and right? Wish I knew more about doing this, never did it before. Sorry to sound so stupid, I probably make all your work harder for you.
 
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  #42  
Old 01-31-18, 07:38 AM
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Brant (X) will know better than I do, he has done this more often, but I assume you have (foundation up) blocks, sill plate bolted to blocks, rim box nailed to sill plate. If the sill plate is not currently bolted down or the bolts can be removed then I would move it all as an assembly. Creating a reference mart from which to measure the resulting shift will be necessary, possibly just measuring from outside edge of blocks if they are starting out flush.

If the sill plate cannot be moved you may be able to remove those nails and just shift the box. That would leave some of the sill plate sticking out from under the box along with the foundation. How to dress this up I'm not sure. Technically the block wall should be shifted but I'm sure your mason would have a heart attack having to pay for that. Again, technically he should have insurance to cover his mistakes.

Let's see what Brant has to suggest.

Bud
 
  #43  
Old 01-31-18, 07:45 AM
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Just thinking about this a little more and realized that the box you are dealing with is just half of this building. Eventually the walls and roof structure will become one building so you shouldn't be kicking this section to be out of line with what will be coming. Your thoughts and Brants and others.

Bud
 
  #44  
Old 01-31-18, 02:03 PM
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Well the block guy was here today and I hope found the problem, the wall "is" out of square. We slid the corner #3 down to corner #2 on the front wall 2 1/4". I'm sitting on my 30' front corner wall 2 1/4" in and hanging over my center wall 2 1/4". The rim joist running in on my sill plate should be no problem, I'm going to run deck joist on that side of the rim so I don't think it'll be that noticeable. He's going to run 2" flat block up the inside of my center garage wall for my rim that's hanging over, I'll just have to do some fancy wood work so that side isn't so noticeable either. I remeasured everything again "twice" and I now have four 9:12:15 corners and both of my diagonal measurements are 45' 7", so my rim joist should be perfectly in square now right? Please tell me I'm right, lol.
 
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  #45  
Old 01-31-18, 02:18 PM
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I hit corner #3 towards corner #2 and everything came up square, Is there anything else I can do so my rim joist isn't running in and overlapping that far? I'm only overlapping my sill plate on my center wall about 12' long.
 
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  #46  
Old 01-31-18, 02:44 PM
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As long as you are just moving wall 3 to 2 or wall 1 to 4 along the wall they are sitting on you should be fine. My mistake was suggesting you make the adjustment by rotating the rim so each corner absorbs 1/4th of the error. Can't do that as the living space need to remain in line with the garage space. You should also be checking the garage space to see if any adjustments are needed there.

As for the exposed concrete and the overlap, my concern would be the exposed concrete at corner #3. That end will be getting all of the rain and possibly water to the inside of the crawlspace. Difficult choice. If you were building for a customer those 30' walls would have to come down and be rebuilt from the footing up.

The good news is the 5" error is no longer a mystery and you now know it can be brought into square. And you know who made the mistake.

Bud
 
  #47  
Old 02-01-18, 05:42 AM
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Seeing it's going to be somewhat of a nice day I'm going back out and do a lot of thinking, maybe I can try a couple different things. I understand now what you mean about corner #3 possibly letting water into my crawlspace, don't want that to be happening. I'll see what I can come up with and keep you posted, that's if you don't mind, maybe we can come up with a few ideas. We're also going to have to make some kind of adjustments for my outside garage wall as you mentioned, the block guy is still working on that one. I'll see what I can come up with and let you know, ok? Thanks... Mark
 
  #48  
Old 02-01-18, 06:48 AM
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I feel you pain Mark. General contractors arrive before the subs, leave after the subs, and never take their eyes off of the subs. The sad part is, I would bet the workers on that foundation knew it wasn't square while they were laying blocks, experienced eyes can see that much of an error and they all know about the 3-4-5 test. Did you say you had to hire union workers, their job would be to lay blocks, not point out other problems, I've been there but maybe I'm being too harsh. I've seen them walk off of a job at a critical point because it was time for their coffee break.

Bud
 
  #49  
Old 02-01-18, 10:08 AM
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Yeah they were all union block layers. The guy I've known for years is also a union block layer and he was the the one who hired them, they were all working on another job together. Actually one of the guys is the foreman of the friend I know, every time he asked if they double checked this or that he always got the response, "you just do your job I know what I'm doing". I guess a lot had to do about big egos and one didn't watch what the other one was doing. I would love to move those walls to square it up but that means waiting til spring, then I have to wait for him to find time during the busy season in order to do it. I would at least like to get this living area built before summer. I have a question, where I moved the #3 rim in on my sill plate my floor joist will only sit about 2 3/4" on that corner. Is 2 3/4" going to be enough to hold the weight of my floor joist?
 
  #50  
Old 02-01-18, 11:43 AM
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In terms of support, corner #3 looks fine, just ugly.
Normally your sheathing would cover all the way down to the top of the foundation and the siding would overhang the sheathing a touch. In your case the sill plate will need to be cut back flush and flashing or something done to cover the top of the blocks while the sheathing and siding are held up a little off of the blocks. Are the top blocks open or solid? I can't tell from the pictures. Definitely can't have water pouring down into them. It will be the corner at the other end of that long wall that will be more of a concern, like the center wall where you say he will be adding 4" blocks.

We don't have enough space here for me to share my union stories. The statement "you just do your job I know what I'm doing" sound so Union.

The mistake is bad enough, but not being able to get things closed in for the rest of winter is a major setback. And I can't see any easy ways to get past this. Either cobble it together and have to look at it forever or wait until spring. Big construction outfits would tent it and fix it now. Seen it done but never had to do that myself.

Bud
 
  #51  
Old 02-02-18, 09:46 AM
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Hey Bud, yea I agree with you, corner #3 does look a little ugly, lol. That side you'll never really see because I'm building a deck off that rim joist, that should cover everything up. I was thinking about something and had a question for you. If you look at the last pictures I sent, #3 corner is sitting in 2 1/4" on the sill plate, #2 hanging off 2 1/4" on the garage side, #1 and 4 are flush. Can I slide the whole rim joist box towards the deck side? It would then make my #1 corner hang off 2 1/4", put my #4 corner in on my sill 2 1/4", and #3 and 2 corners flush. The rim joist would still be square but I can hide that #1hang off corner with my decking. It would easier to build something inside my garage center wall to hide that 2 1/4" sill plate showing. Keeping my fingers crossed, will it work?
 
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