Deck ledger over multiple surfaces

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Old 04-02-19, 06:26 PM
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Deck ledger over multiple surfaces

I'm planning a deck over an existing concrete stoop that will remain in place. The face of the concrete extends to a door threshold which has a 9" rise from the stoop landing. Beyond the stoop is the house framing on block foundation. Haven't removed any siding to confirm but I'm fairly sure the band joist is at the same elevation as the concrete face beneath the threshold. The problem I'm having in my design is that the concrete face is a few inches beyond the house framing. Can this be done with a single ledger board with the gap between the band joist on the home being taken up by another board(s)?

Thanks in advance,
Tom
 
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Old 04-02-19, 06:30 PM
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Yeah I've read this about 5x and it makes no sense. Maybe try and post a picture.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 05:15 AM
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Really need that picture so we can see what your seeing.
At least 95% of the time when removing an old concrete stoop or deck I find damage to the outside of the house because it was built wrong.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 05:33 AM
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Have you thought about not punching holes in the house and building a free standing deck instead?
 
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Old 04-03-19, 06:35 AM
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I believe the interior joist is directly behind the siding to the right, not sure if it is wood or concrete behind the siding to the left.

So my question is this; how can a ledger be attached to both the concrete face below the door and the interior joist when those two surfaces are offset maybe 1-2"?

Thanks,
Tom
 

Last edited by PJmax; 04-03-19 at 04:38 PM. Reason: enlarged picture
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Old 04-03-19, 06:38 AM
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With regard to a free-standing deck, I'm not considering that type of design as I wouldn't be able to leave the stoop in place.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 08:13 AM
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If you were going to use a ledger, you could put it on the left wall, provided you had posts beyond the deck on the right for a beam. The joist in front of the door would not even need to touch the house. If you attach to the house, you would likely need 2 separate ledgers on either side of the door, then a short piece of ledger on the concrete stoop. But IMO this is not a very good plan... first, ledgers must be minimum 2x8 and it doesn't look like you have enough room for the ledger and decking between the concrete slab and the deck. 2nd, there is not enough clearance below the deck for drying (moisture/mold issue).
 
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Old 04-03-19, 08:33 AM
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Thanks for the input.

Hadnít thought of attaching the ledger to that wall. My joist length would change from 12í to ~19í which will increase cost and number of footings I imagine. Sounds easier than multiple ledgers though and I donít have to make a bunch of holes through the house framing.

Need to measure again but I believe I have 9+Ē of concrete face. With 2x8 ledger and 5/4 deck boards I still have nearly 1-1/2Ē. Not enough clearance?
 
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Old 04-03-19, 08:54 AM
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Judging by the width of your siding, it doesn't look like 9" to me. Maybe 8 at the most. You need a minimum of 8 1/4, plus some clearance below the swinging door. If you get a lot of snow where you live, you will have a hard time getting your storm door open.

I wouldn't say it's easier than multiple ledgers... just another way of thinking about it. Nothing hard about putting on 3 smaller pieces.

However you do it you will need a lot of posts. Download the DCA6 deck guide to give you examples of code compliant deck construction.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 09:48 AM
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Gotcha. Iíll measure when I get home this afternoon to confirm Iíve got minimum 8-1/4Ē. If I do 3 ledgers I guess each will need outer joists which means Iíll have two double joists where the ledgers meet. Does having 3 ledgers increase my number of posts? Iíve been referencing DCA6 in my design per local code requirements and my current design has 4 posts which satisfies the max beam span (5í6Ē) for the 19í11Ē overall width.

Thanks
 
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Old 04-03-19, 11:01 AM
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8 1/4" is not enough unless you like your storm door to drag. (Minimum 8 1/4 plus) That's what I'm trying to get across. The ledgers have nothing to do with where posts are and no you don't need to cap the ledger ends in the middle of the deck. They don't affect your layout at all.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 02:36 PM
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Rats it is just 8-1/4Ē of concrete. I suppose I will have to remove at least the top slab/landing
 
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Old 04-03-19, 02:45 PM
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If you are dead set on this idea, you could also rip the ledger down if this isn't going to be inspected. (Or get approval to rip it down another inch or so before you build it) But technically code says 7 1/4" minimum ledger. Since it's right on concrete I would have no problem ripping it since it isn't going to split and fall off like a 2nd story ledger "could".
 
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Old 04-03-19, 02:58 PM
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i have to double-check but I believe my town inspects the ledger and footing holes. Maybe I will submit my permit with a note about the ripped portion of ledger and see what they say.

Thanks for for your input
 
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Old 04-03-19, 04:17 PM
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Doing this right is going to take more work.
That while stoop needs to go.
There's another post on this site about all the damage there dealing with because someone did what your suggesting.
Ripping a pressure treated piece of wood is just a very bad idea!
#1, It's not treated all the way through.
#2, The new pressure treated wood is not even close to being as mold, mildew, rot resistent as the old stuff was!
A free standing deck is the only way I'd build a single story deck.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 06:10 PM
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Thanks for the input Joe. Is there a good reason to not just remove the top landing of the stoop? I believe it is mortar over brick. That would give me the necessary clearance without having to rip the ledgers.
 
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Old 04-03-19, 06:51 PM
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Maybe because of the swimming pool of slop it would create. It's likely full of sand under there. If you take the top off, you should tear it all down.
 
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Old 04-04-19, 07:29 AM
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I think thatís how Iím going to proceed - remove the whole stoop and attach 3 ledgers
 
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Old 04-04-19, 04:14 PM
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My vote is to make it free standing, then there's 0 chance of damage to the house.
I used to make at least $10,000 a year doing nothing but fixing all the damage done by ledgers installed wrong.
The worst one I ever saw and this was done by a so called "builder" that built his own house to live in.
It took out the rim joist, floor joist, subfloor and even the sill plate, all in a 5 year old house.
 
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Old 04-04-19, 08:37 PM
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Nothing wrong with ledgers when they are flashed correctly.

Here's a photo from 2 days ago... how NOT to do a cantilevered deck and patio door sill nose with brick veneer.
 
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Old 04-05-19, 06:11 AM
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Yikes. Ha I know better than that. Admittedly though my only hesitancy in this project is the flashing of the ledger. I know enough to know that it is critical to do it right. We need to have our siding done as well. I may bite the bullet and have a contractor tackle appropriate flashing of the ledger at the same time. That means Iíve got two projects going on simultaneously but it may be the best route if I go the ledger route.

With regard to a free standing deck, I was initially planning to leave the stoop in place Which meant i couldnt do a footer on that corner. Now that the stoop is coming out no matter what I can do free standing. However, Iím confused on the DCA6 with regard to footers within 5í of the foundation. It reads they must be at the same elevation as the bldg footing. How do I go about determining that elevation? Dig near the foundation wall until I hit it? Assume it is the same as frost depth?
 
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Old 04-05-19, 06:48 AM
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Yes it is the same depth as the bottom of your house footing. So if you have a basement, guess what... 7 to 9 feet deep. Thats why ledgers are used.

You can easily remove your vinyl siding and do the ledger flashing yourself.
 
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Old 04-05-19, 06:55 AM
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No basement. Home is split-level and that is a crawl space to the right of the stoop. Inside it is maybe 3-4ft from slab to house framing so I figure outside the slab elevation is ~2ft below grade.

I donít anticipate the depth to be prohibitive just not sure how to determine that depth. Hand auger or dig against the foundation wall? Drill a hole in the slab inside and try to get something down to the footer to gauge depth? Or do I just assume 36Ē from grade as that is the local frost depth and town requirement for footers?
 
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Old 04-05-19, 08:04 AM
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Post hole digger is the easiest.
 
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