Deck questions pertaining to code

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Old 07-25-20, 05:23 PM
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Deck questions pertaining to code

Hi all, I had a deck and patio put in a few months back that was unpermitted (learned my lesson on this one) and now I think I have some code issues. This house is less than a year old but the builder (mass cookie cutter builder) did not supply a deck or patio.

I had Loweís design the deck and then an Amish guy recommended to me install it. The patio was poured by a pro and I told him I wanted footers and he did so but guess he didnít put one where it should be...

The deck is a walkout attached to the house and 9 ft tall. 12x16 dimensions with 2x10 joist on 16 inch center. Trex tailing and boards.

Code issues I am aware of
1.4x4 posts were used
2. Installer did not double up the beam, just used single 2x10 on the outside to attach the joist hangers to.

So I had a licensed deck builder come out and give me estimate to fix and explain what was wrong. I am taking his write up and doing it myself with my dad (a contractor all his life) we are currently replacing the 4x4 posts with 6x6 and adding a doubleí2x12 beam cantilever.

I think we are all good on everything (or will be once we are finished) except for one area. Please see the picture below. I know itís a mess but please look at the 6x6 way in the back that is about a foot from the end of the brick. Sorry for the mess as we havenít taken down the old 4x4 posts yet or added the double beam yet, we are still adding in the 6x6s.

that post is NOT supported by a footer. The patio guy kept saying he was putting in a ďturndown edgeĒ all along the edges that would be sturdy to put deck stuff on it. I thought this all sounded great not knowing what I know now. The concrete is about 8 inches thick but again just at grade and no footer. The other 2 posts that are in the middle and other end that we stuck up ARE on footers.

is this going to cause any issues? If I sell house in future (strong possibility) would inspector fail it? Is it safe?







And one last thing I am in Ky and the local code states footers must be minimum 24 inches deep

Thank you for the response. Yes I forgot about listing the stair risers being open. I am closing those as well.

as far as the ledger board I didnít think that was a problem to secure to the house? It is secured with lag bolts (or whatever they are called) through the brick and into the wood frame of the house.

i just donít want frost heave to make my deck collapse. Not sure how likely that is or how bad frost heave really is but I have been known to be an overly worried person about things 😬

I think I am ok with the ledger board. The picture below is my cities website for decks where it gives a brief overview of the main codes as well as other info.

the deck is secured through the brick and through the house band board as described on the site.
I

promise you this never will I not get permits again this has been such a hassle


QUESTION 2

Hi, I just had an aggregate concrete patio put in off the back of my house last year. I didnít get all the footings put in that I needed (long story but my fault). I want to add a walkout deck attached to the house but 3 areas that will require supporting posts donít have footers. Can concrete professionals add footings into an existing slab patio by cutting into it?

is this a common thing? Even possible without just replacing patio? Iím in KY if that matters.

thanks

QUESTION 3

Iím sorry guys this will be my last post I swear.

I am in the middle of fixing my deck that was installed incorrectly by the Amish I used from a referral. No permit pulled (I know). We just pulled out most of the 4x4 posts and replaced them with 6x6 posts and a double 2x12 beam.

my problem is the stairs. As you can see in the picture, the deck itself is now supported correctly but the bump out for the stairs is not. Itís a 4x6 landing that extends off the main deck. They attached joist hangers to the main deck rim joist and then to another rim joist on the outside, supported by 4x4s.

I was going to replace the 4x4 posts under the stair landing next but then realized I didnít know how to make to code. Is there anyway I can properly support these stair landings per code? I cant seem to think of how?





 

Last edited by XSleeper; 07-26-20 at 08:06 PM. Reason: All questions related to the same topic can stay in one thread
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Old 07-25-20, 07:27 PM
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I don't know that anyone would dig far enough to discover that it's not 24" deep but realistically most people who are in the know would be able to tell that it wasnt on a footing just by the fact that the post where it meets the patio has no expansion joint around it. Post footings must be separate from the pad, because otherwise frost can cause the pad to heave. Basically the patio must be free to move up and down while the post footing does not. So in that respect, I'd say all your footings are wrong.

Bottom line is what your local building inspector says. Codes vary from place to place and what is allowed in one place may be fine somewhere else. If it passes inspection, that's all that matters. Someone buying a house later might p!$$ and moan about something but as long as it passed an inspection it's kind of a moot point. But that's how home inspectors make a living... by trying to find things that are wrong by current standards.

The worst thing you have wrong there that you didnt mention is that the ledger is mounted to a brick structure. That is a huge no no.

Edit: another violation would be the open stair risers that allow a 4" sphere to pass through. But maybe you are still working on that. And the stair stringers need more support. They are only allowed to span 6 feet unsupported.
 

Last edited by XSleeper; 07-25-20 at 08:15 PM. Reason: One more thought...
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Old 07-25-20, 08:21 PM
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The ledger is in violation of 507.9.1.1, assuming that's in your code as well. See the DCA6 prescriptive deck guide for details. Brick is not structural, neither are cantilevered bolts. The brick has an air gap behind it, so any pressure on a bolt can crush that air gap. There are a few standoffs that are mfg'd but you have to get them approved first, and they brick around them.

 
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Old 07-26-20, 05:03 AM
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You are pretty lucky then. You will want to file that code reference away for when you sell the house someday. I'm sure some house inspector will ding you for it and you can reply (and prove) that it was built to your current code.
 
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Old 07-26-20, 07:59 PM
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Sorry about mashing up the 3 separate questions in your thread. I expected them to be tacked onto the end of this thread as separate timestamps questions when I merged them. I added "Question 2 and Question 3" to your post to hopefully clear up what I screwed up.

As for the landing, I'm not a structural engineer, but the way it was built it looks like the landing needed a beam on each side, not just a single member. And then the only way I see to properly support it would be to put 2 posts back to back on the left (last photo) and move the existing post on the right about 6" left so that you could also put 2 posts back to back there.

And as for the question on the cement pad, we have no way of knowing how he poured it. If he made monolithic footings 24" deep under the pad where some of the posts are, that's a problem. You wouldnt just be able to chainsaw out a square hole and dig a new footing through the existing pad. You say there are footings under some of the posts, but there is no expansion joint around the post. That leads me to believe maybe it was a monolithic pour. (All at once).

And on your stairs, assuming your code like most others allows only a 6 ft span on those stringers, they can be supported with a header and 4x4s at the midpoint of their span. Cant see if he used any sort of hanger on them.
 
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Old 07-27-20, 11:43 AM
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Thatís a lot of extra posts!

I wonder if I could take down the beam I just put up, and unseat the joists attached to the rim board from their hangers. Then cut them off the width of a 2x10 so that I can put another 2x10 up to make the new double beam, then reattach the joist hangers to the new beam and put the notched out 6x6 posts back in under that beam.

Then for the stairs I would have a support on the inside of the landing from that aforementioned beam and then I would just put the 2 new 6x6 posts notched out with a double 2x10 on the outside.

before doing so I would also have a concrete guy put in the footers under the stair landing (none there right now).

to get around the other footers that are already there, I could just move the posts over to a section that doesnít have a current footing and add a new one (the deck is only 16 ft long and will have 3 supports so will have plenty of play room between posts lengths to place them where I want.
 
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Old 07-27-20, 11:47 AM
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Also he poured the entire slab in one day so I would say for sure it is monolithic. Apparently that doesnít meet code? I am trying to find that in my local code but canít find.

i actually just got off phone with deck contractor who is coming out tomorrow to look at it. Thank you again for taking the time to give advice and knowledge!
 
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