Broken tile replacement...
#1
10-18-02, 04:12 PM
Broken tile replacement...
Hi,
I have a question about replacing a couple tiles in a shower enclosure. I'll give you a quick rundown of what we're looking at:
(Background: shower spigot and single handle controller are on west wall; door is on north side; south and east are tiled; one piece floor drain assembly; 7 years old).
- Noticed crack in tile on bottom of south wall, next to southeast seam (this is the area that gets most water during showering).
- Removed cracked tile; found mildew; removed surrounding tiles until I found all mildew; removed mildew with bleach; removed 2.5 tiles total.
- Some of the green paper part came off with the tiles.
- Southeast bottom corner is where tile was removed. Backerboard was soaked through in one spot in the corner--removed pieces of green board that were falling out. Now have a small 'hollow' spot in the bottom southeast corner. Hollow spot is less than 10 sq. in. total (much less than the tile that covered it).
Question:
Can I fill in this hollow spot? If so, what should I use that would be most resistant to expansion/compression? If not, how should I proceed? Since this is the spot that gets the most water during showering, I want to make sure I fill it in as best I can without having to take out all the tile and replace the backerboard.
Let me know if I can give you more information. Hopefully I have given you enough info to get a picture of what it looks like!
Thanks in advance for your expertise!
Jeff
I have a question about replacing a couple tiles in a shower enclosure. I'll give you a quick rundown of what we're looking at:
(Background: shower spigot and single handle controller are on west wall; door is on north side; south and east are tiled; one piece floor drain assembly; 7 years old).
- Noticed crack in tile on bottom of south wall, next to southeast seam (this is the area that gets most water during showering).
- Removed cracked tile; found mildew; removed surrounding tiles until I found all mildew; removed mildew with bleach; removed 2.5 tiles total.
- Some of the green paper part came off with the tiles.
- Southeast bottom corner is where tile was removed. Backerboard was soaked through in one spot in the corner--removed pieces of green board that were falling out. Now have a small 'hollow' spot in the bottom southeast corner. Hollow spot is less than 10 sq. in. total (much less than the tile that covered it).
Question:
Can I fill in this hollow spot? If so, what should I use that would be most resistant to expansion/compression? If not, how should I proceed? Since this is the spot that gets the most water during showering, I want to make sure I fill it in as best I can without having to take out all the tile and replace the backerboard.
Let me know if I can give you more information. Hopefully I have given you enough info to get a picture of what it looks like!
Thanks in advance for your expertise!
Jeff
#2
10-18-02, 04:33 PM
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Jeff,
You did an excellent job of explaining what is but I know you won't want to hear this, replace it all.
Now before anybody gets on my case about this, let me explain. Even though you have removed all the mildew, THAT WAS VISIBLE, lets consider the what if's.
Water resistant greenboard sheetrock should not be used for walls that will be subjected to heavy amounts of moisture. This includes but is not limited to, shower stalls and tub enclosures. Green board is water resistant but not water proof and will disintegrate if it is exposed to excessive amounts of moisture. It no longer is approved for use (ANSI A108) as a wet substrate.
The best thing to use would be a backerboard of either DensShield, Hardibacker or Durock. Since you have had significant moisture penetrate what you did see, the issue is what you don't see. Any repairs made now are just a band-aid approach to make it look better but if mold continues to grow, and it will, you may have other issues to deal with.
No telling what is wet and damaged behind your tile but I can guess. I would consider replacing all that you have, remove the green board because you may just be getting the initial stages of tiles coming off and creating severe water damage to your studs as well. If you can tap your tiles with a screwdriver and are hearing differences from near the damage areas and comparing this to other areas like near the faucet assembly, you'll know what I mean about substrate failure.
Hope this didn't bum you out!
You did an excellent job of explaining what is but I know you won't want to hear this, replace it all.
Now before anybody gets on my case about this, let me explain. Even though you have removed all the mildew, THAT WAS VISIBLE, lets consider the what if's.
Water resistant greenboard sheetrock should not be used for walls that will be subjected to heavy amounts of moisture. This includes but is not limited to, shower stalls and tub enclosures. Green board is water resistant but not water proof and will disintegrate if it is exposed to excessive amounts of moisture. It no longer is approved for use (ANSI A108) as a wet substrate.
The best thing to use would be a backerboard of either DensShield, Hardibacker or Durock. Since you have had significant moisture penetrate what you did see, the issue is what you don't see. Any repairs made now are just a band-aid approach to make it look better but if mold continues to grow, and it will, you may have other issues to deal with.
No telling what is wet and damaged behind your tile but I can guess. I would consider replacing all that you have, remove the green board because you may just be getting the initial stages of tiles coming off and creating severe water damage to your studs as well. If you can tap your tiles with a screwdriver and are hearing differences from near the damage areas and comparing this to other areas like near the faucet assembly, you'll know what I mean about substrate failure.
Hope this didn't bum you out!
#3
10-18-02, 05:27 PM
I'm not surprised at your reply...
Right now, the shower is just not being used (we have a second bath/shower). I got really paranoid when I first noticed the crack and the wet green board since we are on the 3rd floor of a three-story condo, so we just stopped using it.
As far as replacing it all, how should I go about removing all the tile and green board? The tile seems like the hardest because of the noise. When I removed the grout and tile on the 2.5 that I took out, the rest of the people in the condos thought we were taking walls down! Since I would have to remove the green board anyway, what about using a pry bar to get behind a group of tiles at once? It sounds like I would just have to watch for the studs, but not worry about the backerboard. Or do I need to just use the hammer and start breaking tile?
Thanks for the info!
Jeff
Right now, the shower is just not being used (we have a second bath/shower). I got really paranoid when I first noticed the crack and the wet green board since we are on the 3rd floor of a three-story condo, so we just stopped using it.
As far as replacing it all, how should I go about removing all the tile and green board? The tile seems like the hardest because of the noise. When I removed the grout and tile on the 2.5 that I took out, the rest of the people in the condos thought we were taking walls down! Since I would have to remove the green board anyway, what about using a pry bar to get behind a group of tiles at once? It sounds like I would just have to watch for the studs, but not worry about the backerboard. Or do I need to just use the hammer and start breaking tile?
Thanks for the info!
Jeff
#4
10-18-02, 07:01 PM
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Jeff,
I'll attach some links for you to look at to help you get underway. I know that some noise will be created but you may want to advise your neighbors that the noise should last about 2 hours - this will give you time to clean up the mess.
First thing I would do is to apply duct tape over the shower drain. Don't need to get debris down that! Get an old blanket and protect the shower base and then lay good plastic over this, like 6 mil to assist in making clean up easier. The blanket will also deaden some noise. You can use a flat bar or better still a medium size wrecking bar, makes prying drywall off easier. Don't get carried away with removal - be careful, wear eye protection and gloves. Long sleeve shirt.
You basically want to strip everything off the walls just above the existing tile, like 6 inches or so. Use a utility knife to cut the rock and remove carefully not to break more drywall than you need to. Remove your shower handle and faceplate and don't loose the screws! (By the way if you wanted to change out this assembly to a good one, pressure balanced temp control, now would be a good time to do it).
Here's a couple links for faucets;
http://www.moen.com/Consumer/catalog/product_search.cfm
http://www.deltafaucet.com/servlet/OnlineCatalog
http://www.us.kohler.com/faucets/index.jsp
First link; http://www.asilo.com/house/shower-plumbing.html - get it down to the studs, disregard the steel studs in this view
and pretend that your shower base is still there.
Now, before I go further, you have an option, finishing your shower walls, you may want to go with a shower enclosure versus ceramic. I am suggesting a good shower wall enclosure unless you prefer to go with ceramic tile again. Here is a link to a couple of shower wall enclosures , they have installation instructions to view.;
http://www.asbcorp.com/index.cfm
http://www.elmustee.com/bathwall.html
Should you decide to do ceramic tile, here are some links that will guide you through installation, from the studs out.
There are different backer boards that can be installed, take a look at these;
http://www.gp.com/gypsum/tilebacker/applications.html
http://www.cgcinc.com/gypsum/cement.dur/welcome.htm
http://www.floorstransformed.com/backerboard.html
http://www.hardibacker.com/hardibackerinstall.htm
http://www.cgcinc.com/cgcdiy/DIYCB/welcome.htm
http://interiordec.about.com/gi/dyna...2Fdoityour.htm
I thinks this does it, let me know if this is helpful!
I'll attach some links for you to look at to help you get underway. I know that some noise will be created but you may want to advise your neighbors that the noise should last about 2 hours - this will give you time to clean up the mess.
First thing I would do is to apply duct tape over the shower drain. Don't need to get debris down that! Get an old blanket and protect the shower base and then lay good plastic over this, like 6 mil to assist in making clean up easier. The blanket will also deaden some noise. You can use a flat bar or better still a medium size wrecking bar, makes prying drywall off easier. Don't get carried away with removal - be careful, wear eye protection and gloves. Long sleeve shirt.
You basically want to strip everything off the walls just above the existing tile, like 6 inches or so. Use a utility knife to cut the rock and remove carefully not to break more drywall than you need to. Remove your shower handle and faceplate and don't loose the screws! (By the way if you wanted to change out this assembly to a good one, pressure balanced temp control, now would be a good time to do it).
Here's a couple links for faucets;
http://www.moen.com/Consumer/catalog/product_search.cfm
http://www.deltafaucet.com/servlet/OnlineCatalog
http://www.us.kohler.com/faucets/index.jsp
First link; http://www.asilo.com/house/shower-plumbing.html - get it down to the studs, disregard the steel studs in this view
and pretend that your shower base is still there.
Now, before I go further, you have an option, finishing your shower walls, you may want to go with a shower enclosure versus ceramic. I am suggesting a good shower wall enclosure unless you prefer to go with ceramic tile again. Here is a link to a couple of shower wall enclosures , they have installation instructions to view.;
http://www.asbcorp.com/index.cfm
http://www.elmustee.com/bathwall.html
Should you decide to do ceramic tile, here are some links that will guide you through installation, from the studs out.
There are different backer boards that can be installed, take a look at these;
http://www.gp.com/gypsum/tilebacker/applications.html
http://www.cgcinc.com/gypsum/cement.dur/welcome.htm
http://www.floorstransformed.com/backerboard.html
http://www.hardibacker.com/hardibackerinstall.htm
http://www.cgcinc.com/cgcdiy/DIYCB/welcome.htm
http://interiordec.about.com/gi/dyna...2Fdoityour.htm
I thinks this does it, let me know if this is helpful!
