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How do I secure the kitchen island to porcelain tile on concrete slab floor?

How do I secure the kitchen island to porcelain tile on concrete slab floor?

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  #1  
Old 03-01-07, 07:55 AM
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How do I secure the kitchen island to porcelain tile on concrete slab floor?

I have 2 cabinets that I want to use as a kitchen Island. They will be 4'x2' when put back to back.

I want to put a 4'x5' counter on the top so there is a 1' overhang on 3 sides.

So...I need to securely attch the cabinets to a floor that is porcelain tile on a cement slab. I know I need to build a frame and attach the cabints to it. However my dilima is how to attach that frame to the floor.

I have no clue how to go about doing this. In my research I came up with 3 methods.

Attach with construction adhesive. That sounds the easiest, but will it be strong enough?

Use tapcon screws. Sounds ok, but its my understanding the porcelain tile will be very hard to drill through. Plus I don't have a hammer drill?

Use a remington nail driver and shoot the nails through the 2x4, tile and into the concrete. This sounds a little crazy... Will this be able to go through the porcelain tile. Looking at them at HD, the nail was 2-1/2" long. So only about an 1" would be in the tile/concrete. Is this enough to secure it?
Will this shatter the porcelain tile?

Thanks!
 
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  #2  
Old 03-01-07, 08:45 AM
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I just drilled porcelain and learned the hard way you don't use a standard masonry bit OR a hammer drill. Get a diamond tip bit, it's about $13 but worth it. It looks like a miniature hole saw and you use it with a (fully charged) cordless drill. Use this to go through the tile. Then switch to a standard masonry bit sized for a tapcon. Depending on the cure of your concrete you may be able to use a non-hammer drill. But you can get a cheapo hammer drill for $25. I did and it outperformed by far the Craftsman I paid $60 for.

Alternatively, you can increase the hole size and use lead expanders (still using a diamond bit for the porcelain. MAKE SURE the expander is below the tile. If you expand in the tile you may break it.
 
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Old 03-01-07, 09:21 AM
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So say I use the 3/16" tapcon screws. They reccommend a 5/32" masonary drill bit.

Do I get the diamond tip bit that size also, or do I get it 3/16" ?

I guess I ask this b/c I don't know if the tapcons will bind in the hard porcelain. Do I just want it to slip through the porcelain and then start screwing into the concrete...?

I hope that made sense!

Oh and my concrete is about 16 years old. Not sure how hard that makes it. Prob pretty hard :-)
 
  #4  
Old 03-01-07, 11:34 AM
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Definitely use the larger bit on the tile, you don't want any outward pressure exerted on them, either when driving the screws or later during use. Yes you just want to slip through the tile and grab in the concrete.

Sounds like you prabably will need a hammer dril for that concrete. Remember to pull it in and out while rotating to remove the debris.

I think I'd reccomend the other method though--larger lags and lead expanders. Say a 1/2" diamond bit through the tile, a 1/2" masonry bit and 1/2" anchors with an appropriately sized lag screw. Sometimes tapcons grab and hold tight, sometimes not.
 
  #5  
Old 03-01-07, 11:58 AM
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hmmm...I did se the tapcons come in 1/4" also.

It does kinda defeat the purpose to go through all theat work and not have the tapcons catch. :-(

The lead expanders with 1/2" would definately hold it in place. How long do you think it would take to drill the porcelain hole and then the concrete hole?

It's always these crazy little things that get complicated in these projects I take on. Common story I guess...
 
  #6  
Old 03-01-07, 12:18 PM
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The diamond bit will make short work of the tile. 5 minutes per hole. Ditto the concrete if you use a hammer drill.
 
  #7  
Old 03-01-07, 02:01 PM
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I'm sure caleyg's advice would work just fine. If I was doing it, I'd install 2x4 cleats onto the floor with glue and 1/4" x 2 3/4" hex head tapcons, put them through the grout joints, not the tile, where ever you can. You don't need one in every grout joint, just enough to hold the cleat into the construction adhesive.

If you don't have a hammer drill, but you have the time to wait for the construction adhesive to set up, just glue the cleat to the floor and put some weight on it. You might run an extra bead around the inside edge of the cleat for good measure. It will hold plenty.
 
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Old 03-01-07, 02:34 PM
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That does sound easier. Unfortunately the tiles are closely spaced (about 1/8") so I would still have to drill.

It is tempting to just use adhesive and be done with it...

To really show my lack of knowledge and need for help. What exactly is a 2x4 "cleat"?

Thanks :-)
 
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Old 03-01-07, 02:46 PM
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In this context, its simply a 2x4 that you fasten to the floor. A cleat is a term used for a piece of wood that gives support or helps fasten something larger. The cabinet slips over this cleat, and you can then screw the bottom edge of the cabinet to the cleat. If the cleat won't move, neither will the cabinet.

You'd likely want to measure the bottom of the cabinet to see how big of a cleat you'd need, and allow a little wiggle room. It can be one cleat on each end of the island, or front and back, or lay out the 2x4s to form a square that an individual cabinet will slip over. Since you are putting 2 cabinets back to back, and they are pretty small, I think I'd just use two 2x4s laid where they will be just behind the toekick of each cabinet. When you screw each cabinet to the (glued down) cleat, those screws will be covered by your final toekick trim (usually a piece of 1/4" veneered plywood that is stained to match the cabinets).
 
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Old 03-01-07, 03:59 PM
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You have been given A1+ advice on how to do it, so please don't consider the powder actuated pins. I read your first post and nearly lost my breath. You would surely shatter a bunch of tile doing this. Good luck with the project.
 
  #11  
Old 03-01-07, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by chandler View Post
You have been given A1+ advice on how to do it, so please don't consider the powder actuated pins. I read your first post and nearly lost my breath. You would surely shatter a bunch of tile doing this. Good luck with the project.

Haha...don't worry I was having the same reservations. I did not really want to go that route...As I said it seemed a little crazy to me :-)

Thanks for the help, I will go with the adhesive route this weekend and let you know how it goes. I think even I can handle doing that...hopefully.

Last is there any certain brand adhesive that is better than another at bonding wood to porcelain tile...?

Thanks again for taking the time to help!
 
  #12  
Old 03-01-07, 07:08 PM
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PL Polyurethane is probably the most tenacious one out there. But pretty much any construction adhesive will work. PL200 is the old standby, it sets up fairly quickly.
 
  #13  
Old 03-01-07, 08:05 PM
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Follow Xsleepers advice and put down a cleat with tapcons in the grout joints, use the bit that came with the screws and a hammer drill you'll be fine. DO NOT use just adhesive to put down the cleat, if someone my weight were to jump up to sit on the counter edge the cabinets and I would probably end up damaged goods.
 
  #14  
Old 03-01-07, 10:15 PM
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Jampac, unless you weigh the same amount as a skid loader , I doubt you would be able to budge a cabinet that is screwed to a 2x4 that has been glued to the floor. Imagine doing the demo on that kitchen 50 years from now. A sledge hammer will rip the 2x4 apart before the glue lets go, provided you use plenty of glue.

Kind of like trying to tear out a subfloor that has been glued down. The glue bond doesn't fail, it rips the plywood plys apart first.

But I agree that a couple tapcons would be best, that's why I mentioned it first.
 
  #15  
Old 03-02-07, 03:32 PM
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If in Planning stages of the re-do

Just to clarify my thoughts - It would be best to get the cleats down on the Concrete, set the cabinets, and then lay the tile up to the cabinets. This would eliminate the concern about busting tile.

More thoughts -
Addionally, would /should lay down 1/2" plywood first ( or thickness of the eventual tile) under where the cabinets are going, so that the dang dish washer will clear the counter top.

Now - may have to take that 1/2" out of the eventual counter top! In my case, the current formica top is cut under the edge of an aluminum slider kitchen window.

?? Would it be possible to get that 1/2" clearance from the underside of the counter top that goes over the D/W? by "letting" 1/2" from the material? Problem then is that this c/top ends on a verticle panel, definately not much support for a thinned out c/top. But would eliminate the need for the 1/2" plywood "subfloor" under the cabinets.

Whoa - this went outa control Thanks
 
  #16  
Old 03-06-07, 01:37 PM
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The DW will clear the cabinets without a plywood base. There are adjustable feet and access panel. As long as you're talking about a 1/2" or less.

I think I'd lay the tile first though. The only reason to anchor to the floor is an island or peninsula and that is easy enough to deal with.

The window is another matter, if it really is tight you may want to put in cabinets before tile, or you could take 1/4" off the bottom of the cabinets in the toekick space. But that could be a bear.
 
  #17  
Old 03-06-07, 09:23 PM
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Thanks CaleyG

Can't believe you made heads /tails out of that rambling...

But, I gotcha. thanks again.
 
  #18  
Old 03-07-07, 07:23 AM
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Thumbs up

Well...I put down the cleats with construction adhesive...Then attached the cabinets to the cleats with countersunk long wood screws.

Decided to just use the construction adhesive since my tile was closely set, going through the grout lines would still involve drilling thru the porcelain tile. Which involved a hammer drill, diamond drill bits etc.. all of which I didn't have.

I know I took the poor mans way out but it seems really solid. I didn't throw my entire weight against it. It seemed like the walls of the cabinet break off before I would be able to tear off the part attached to the floor.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. Definately enough info here if anyone ever runs in to the same situation. I really appreciate it.

Oh, and I will try to keep any heavy guys from sitting on the corner of the overhang :-)
 
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