Re-doing a shower floor


  #1  
Old 08-14-07, 07:12 PM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Re-doing a shower floor

I have a tiled shower stall that wasn't built very well by the original builder. When I took possession of the house, I had the builder re-tile the walls.

When we use that shower now, there is always a puddle in an area of the floor on the white mosaic tiles, because of an uneven slope, but it does not leak. I'd like to cover the existing shower mosaics with nicer ones and in the process fix the slope. I am thinking of sanding down the old mosaics to roughen them up and then applying a coat of thinset and setting the new mosaics on that. The one thing I can't figure out how to do is the drain. I think the drain that's in there now is one of those three piece 4-inch drain sets (I don't know what they're called) with the piece underneath the pan liner, then the piece on top of the liner, and then the stainless cover. Is there some sort of ring that I can use with this drain set so that I can raise the drain to match the new tile elevation? If so, where would I find one?

Thanks
 
  #2  
Old 08-15-07, 03:33 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,964
Received 8 Votes on 7 Posts
If done properly, the installer used a modular shower drain and it is infinitely adjustable by unscrewing the top part to increase the distance from the finished floor. Have you figured out how you will keep from duplicating the same error by just retiling over the old tile?
 
  #3  
Old 08-15-07, 08:16 AM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks chandler.

I was wondering why they make those parts with all that threading. But, doesn't the upper part have to screw all the way down to secure the pan liner?

The depressed area I was planning to raise up with extra thickness of thinset by eye. Is there a way to do it with more accuracy than by eye?
 
  #4  
Old 08-15-07, 01:52 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,964
Received 8 Votes on 7 Posts
The EPDM liner fits under the secondary plate with a keyway flange, and the threaded shaft with drain is adjusted to suit the thickness of the tile installation. Using a level from corner to center with a 1/2" block of wood taped to the end sitting on the drain, when level will give a good drop for the thinset. I hope that is what you were looking for.
 
  #5  
Old 08-15-07, 05:35 PM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Sorry chandler I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. Do you mean to use the level with the 1/2 inch block as a screeding tool to make it even or just as a check as I spread the thinset? I think the overall drop is adequate (although I have not measured it) but the floor is uneven to the naked eye, so I was just planning to even it up.

I've looked at the drains at Home Depot - they're actually four part drains not three as I thought and I see what you mean about the second part securing the liner. I measured the threaded neck of the third part to be 7/8 of an inch. Allowing a few threads to engage this third part, it doesn't look to me that there will be enough depth to accommodate two tile thicknesses plus thinset (there is absolutely lots for the thickest of tiles for one layer but not for two)! Would I be able to buy this third part with a longer threaded neck? Where? I don't want to start the project until I figure out how I am going to work this thing out.
 
  #6  
Old 08-15-07, 05:58 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,964
Received 8 Votes on 7 Posts
I was suggesting using it to check the drop, but if you feel the drop is ok and only need to smooth it out, then you wont need that tidbit. Not sure if that neck is available in longer sizes, or not. The one I installed was probably 4" long, but as you say, maybe not enough for two layers of tile. You may want to check with the Oatey website or others that manufacture them to see if it is possible to get one. Good luck and let us know how it is going.
 
  #7  
Old 08-16-07, 07:12 AM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Thanks. A four inch long one would be great, heck, even an inch and 1/2 or so would do me. I'll have to look for a longer one then. I don't know how long the one in place now is, but will assume it's a short one, to be safe.
 
  #8  
Old 08-16-07, 07:51 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,533
Received 9 Votes on 9 Posts
Typical mud bed in a shower should be 1 1/4" or thicker. Add the tile and thinset and your up to about 1 3/4". They do make extensions for the drain barrels as well that can give you the height you need. I'll warn you that some times you can get the existing barrels out pretty easy and sometimes they can be a bear, depending on the installation. You never know untile you get started. Hope yours comes out easy. To get the extension barrel that you'll need in there you will have to break out some of the tile and mud bed around the drain anyway. For the low spots that you have in the current tile floor, fill them in with thinset to get the floor pitched properly before you set the tile. You wont be able to successfully adjust the height of 1" mosaic tiles so you need to make any necessary corrections with thinset before hand. 1" mosaics will follow the existing contour of the floor so youll have the same problem all over again. Make sure you remove any dirt, grease, soap scum etc from the existing tiles. Rough up the surface of the existing tile and use a good quality modified thinset.

You could try another approach here. Remove all the tile approx 1' or a little more arround the drain. Fill in the cleaned out area with thinset to a featheredge at the drain and up to the height of the finished tile at the remaining tile perimeter. You may have to do this in two or more layers as thinset applied too thick will tend to crack. The first thinset application should be to fix some of the damaged mud bed from removing the tile. After that, the goal is to get the pitch from the drain to the remaining tile flat and smooth for tile. Then you can tile over everything and not have to touch the drain. You'll have a little more pitch in the center of the shower but if you can live with that you may save yourself some time and trouble. You could also do the same with the thinset from the remaining tile to the wall perimeters and get the entire shower to have the same pitch. If you decide to do that, you ideally want to remove tile up to approx 1/2 way between the drain and the walls.
 
  #9  
Old 08-16-07, 07:52 AM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
I just contacted Oatey, but they have only been making shower drains since the early 90's. Mine dates back to 1987, so it's not one of theirs. Oatey threaded parts are 2 inches long according to their engineering plans, I was advised.

I was also advised that Oatey does not make any sort of adapter to add a new layer of tile, but their liner clamping part can be reversed (flipped upside down) to raise the threads some extra distance! (nice trick to know). Also threads are not universal, so one brand may not fit another, even though it may be long enough to suit my application.

So I need to find a retailer that can offer me an assortment of drains and hopefully sell me one that'll work. I don't think it'll be that hard to take the threaded part off, but wouldn't want to have to replace the entire drain! If only I could find out who made the drain I have in place now before removing it, then I could find out exactly what I'll be looking at having to do. I don't see any brand name stamped on it (on top).

I never expected that such a small detail would cause so much of a problem.
 
  #10  
Old 08-17-07, 11:52 AM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by HeresJohnny View Post
Typical mud bed in a shower should be 1 1/4" or thicker. Add the tile and thinset and your up to about 1 3/4". They do make extensions for the drain barrels as well that can give you the height you need. I'll warn you that some times you can get the existing barrels out pretty easy and sometimes they can be a bear, depending on the installation. You never know untile you get started. Hope yours comes out easy. To get the extension barrel that you'll need in there you will have to break out some of the tile and mud bed around the drain anyway. For the low spots that you have in the current tile floor, fill them in with thinset to get the floor pitched properly before you set the tile. You wont be able to successfully adjust the height of 1" mosaic tiles so you need to make any necessary corrections with thinset before hand. 1" mosaics will follow the existing contour of the floor so youll have the same problem all over again. Make sure you remove any dirt, grease, soap scum etc from the existing tiles. Rough up the surface of the existing tile and use a good quality modified thinset.

You could try another approach here. Remove all the tile approx 1' or a little more arround the drain. Fill in the cleaned out area with thinset to a featheredge at the drain and up to the height of the finished tile at the remaining tile perimeter. You may have to do this in two or more layers as thinset applied too thick will tend to crack. The first thinset application should be to fix some of the damaged mud bed from removing the tile. After that, the goal is to get the pitch from the drain to the remaining tile flat and smooth for tile. Then you can tile over everything and not have to touch the drain. You'll have a little more pitch in the center of the shower but if you can live with that you may save yourself some time and trouble. You could also do the same with the thinset from the remaining tile to the wall perimeters and get the entire shower to have the same pitch. If you decide to do that, you ideally want to remove tile up to approx 1/2 way between the drain and the walls.
Thanks a lot HeresJohnny. I was hoping I wouldn't have to remove tiles already in place, or at least minimize what I have to remove. The drain has a white substance around it about 1/4 to 1/2 inch wide, so I think by removing that, I should be able to get at the drain barrel OK. I was planning to apply thinset to even out the existing tiles after cleaning/sanding them to get them ready for the thinset layer to set the new tiles into, as you suggest. My concern is that I may remove the barrel and then am unable to find a longer one to fit the drain that's installed now, since I can't get the manufacturer's name (not stamped on it) to find out if a longer barrel is available from them. I suppose if it comes to that (and Murphy's law says it will happen that way!), then I can fall back on your suggestion to change the pitch of the floor - for sure then the water will not puddle !!!
 
  #11  
Old 11-14-08, 07:27 PM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by HeresJohnny View Post
You could try another approach here. Remove all the tile approx 1' or a little more arround the drain. Fill in the cleaned out area with thinset to a featheredge at the drain and up to the height of the finished tile at the remaining tile perimeter. You may have to do this in two or more layers as thinset applied too thick will tend to crack. The first thinset application should be to fix some of the damaged mud bed from removing the tile. After that, the goal is to get the pitch from the drain to the remaining tile flat and smooth for tile. Then you can tile over everything and not have to touch the drain. You'll have a little more pitch in the center of the shower but if you can live with that you may save yourself some time and trouble. You could also do the same with the thinset from the remaining tile to the wall perimeters and get the entire shower to have the same pitch. If you decide to do that, you ideally want to remove tile up to approx 1/2 way between the drain and the walls.
I finally got around to doing this last suggestion of yours, HeresJohnny, and it worked beautifully, Now I have a nice even slope on the shower floor all over and water drains really nicely. I also re-did the curb and the rest of the entrance and installed a 3/8" frameless glass door. Thanks again.
 
  #12  
Old 11-14-08, 07:58 PM
HotxxxxxxxOKC's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 8,034
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Been over a year. You are as slow as me....
 
  #13  
Old 11-15-08, 03:36 AM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,964
Received 8 Votes on 7 Posts
Now I feel better about my cabin shower not being finished after a month.
 
  #14  
Old 11-22-08, 08:38 AM
Q
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 444
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Yes, I was slow, but it was a matter of priorities.

I was doing another shower, ripping out the bathtub and replacing it with a shower, then doing faux wainscotting on my entrance, kitchen and curved stairwell walls and then painting. The "pros" wouldn't do the curved stairwell wall, so I decided to do it myself and save a bundle, but each box in the stairwell wall had different angles so it took a while! Looks good though.

Then I finally got to this shower.

Now I have more painting to do!
 
  #15  
Old 11-24-08, 08:18 AM
H
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 3,533
Received 9 Votes on 9 Posts
Quick

Glad it worked out for you. Its always nice to get positive feedback.


Now I feel better about my cabin shower not being finished after a month.
I did my bathroom about 5 years ago during a slow period. After 3 days my wife wanted to know why it wasnt done yet. One month is unacceptable.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: