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# Will I be able to stand 90" cabinet upright in kitchen with 90.5" tall ceilings?

#1
04-06-09, 04:34 PM
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Will I be able to stand 90" cabinet upright in kitchen with 90.5" tall ceilings?

My kitchen ceilings are only 90.5" tall and we have put a 90" pantry unit in our plan. Will I be able to stand the pantry upright with only 0.5" clearance?

The pantry will have to be carried into the kitchen horizontally and then stood upright. I might be able to gain 0.25 - 0.5" inches after I redo the floor, but I need to order the cabinets way before I tear out the current floors, so I won't know for sure if I'll gain any height.

Thanks.

Mark

#2
04-06-09, 05:11 PM
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NO! Assuming the cabinet is 24" deep, the diagonal of a 90" cabinet is 93 1/4".

You need to order the cabinet without the sub-base, and with finish side panels and toe kicks that will be installed after you set the cabinet (86") on top of your separate 4" sub-base.

#3
04-06-09, 06:05 PM
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Yes the cabinet is 24" deep.

How did you figure out the diagonal measurement?

Thanks.

Mark

#4
04-06-09, 06:38 PM
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The Pythagorean theorem. The hypotenuse of a triangle is equal to the square root of the sum of the two sides, each squared. Or you could draw it on a piece of scaled paper and measure it with a ruler.

#5
04-06-09, 06:40 PM
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The square root of the sum of the squares. 90 squared plus 24 squared, then take the square root.

However, since the cabinet will be hiding the ceiling above it, you might be able to remove a section of the ceiling, tip the cabinet up, slide it over, repair the ceiling, and slide it in place. If you go with this option X may have to run some more calculations for us to be sure opening a hole between 16" oc beams will be enough.

Bud

#6
04-06-09, 07:58 PM
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You know how I love math!!!

If you opened up the area between one set of ceiling joists by removing the drywall between them, and you tipped it up, about 3 1/4" of the cabinet would be up in the ceiling, wedged tight against the joist on that side... (only the first 3 1/4 x 14 1/2" of the top corner of the cabinet will fit up in there at one time.) The remaining 9 1/2" of your 24" wide cabinet would be below the ceiling but at the point it drops below the ceiling, it would be wedged tight against the joist on that side, since when you come in 9 1/2 from the edge of the cabinet, the hypotenuse would be exactly 90.5". So it would be wedged tight, and probably wouldn't budge unless you removed a little more of the 1/2" drywall under that joist to gain some space. Then it might rotate around and start getting shorter.

I'm sure there would be lots of cursing and swearing before you get it tipped back down, but there would be celebrating once it was done. Beer 4U2

#7
04-07-09, 04:40 PM
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So I assume I'm going to have the same problem with a 90" h x 24" d x 3/4" w fridge side panel piece?

#8
04-07-09, 04:56 PM
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You will have no problem tipping up something that is only 3/4" wide.

#9
04-07-09, 05:06 PM
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I get 93-1/8", if that helps!!! But it is a early '78 construction master calculator!

Be safe, GBR

#10
04-07-09, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by XSleeper
You will have no problem tipping up something that is only 3/4" wide.
So only 2 of the 3 dimensions come into play when figuring out if it will be able to be stood up?

#11
04-07-09, 08:49 PM
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Hi, again. Here: Pythagoras Theorem

If you have forced air heat, look in the supply register on the floor in the kitchen to see how thick the floors are.

Or, Somewhere you know there may be a cabinet, drill a hole to see how thick it is. You're replacing floor anyway, drill anywhere!

You only need two sides of box because you won't be spinning or rotating it untill it's up. At that site picture the tall side as the long leg of the triangle, and short = short leg.
Try it with a box, on the table, notice how high it goes when it's "on point".

We are here to help! Be safe, GBR

#12
04-07-09, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Indiana627
So only 2 of the 3 dimensions come into play when figuring out if it will be able to be stood up?
I think the answer to your question is that you HAVE to use the height as one of the numbers, since it will be standing. But you take the smaller of the other dimensions (width or depth) and those are the numbers you would use to figure out which diagonal is smallest, and therefore easiest to tip up. (without cutting out ceiling joists).

Like I mentioned, though... IMO, it would be easiest to get the full length cabinets without the sub-bases attached because that would make them 4" shorter. Of course, depending on where you are getting the cabinets from, that may not be an option.

Cutting the sheetrock out to make a gap in the joists is a great idea (kudos to Bud) and may be your only hope of standing them up otherwise.

#13
04-07-09, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA
I get 93-1/8", if that helps!!! But it is a early '78 construction master calculator!

Be safe, GBR
I rounded up to the nearest 1/8", not down. It's actually 93.145... very close to 1/8", but just over 9/64".

Need to round up to have some clearance on each side or it will get stuck. It's going to be a tight fit no matter how you look at it. But that's why Sawzall's were invented.

#14
04-08-09, 06:45 AM
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Pantry

What is the width of the pantry? Is it less than 24 in?

I helped install a ceiling-height pantry a while back which had a separate base unit. After we tilted the cabinet upright, we then lifted it straight up onto the base.

#15
04-08-09, 07:38 AM
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Thanks for all the help. To answer a few questions: yes the pantry is 90" x 24" x 24". No I don't really want to have to cut the ceiling out. As for the floor thickness, I had already taken off the cold air return in the dining room wall and was able to see cross section of kitchen floor: it is made up of 2 layers of plywood totaling 1.25" thick and then .25" luan and then 2 layers of linoleum. So there is definitely not another 3" there.

Planning on buying Kraftmaid cabinets from Lowes and am hoping to stop in today after work to discuss this and to see if the pantry can be ordered with the base separate. If not, then I don't know what we are going to do.

Thanks for explaining how I only need to use 2 of the 3 measurements - now I understand. Wish me luck getting this ordered so that we'll be able to install it!

Mark

#16
04-08-09, 03:24 PM
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Lowes is letting you install the cabinets yourself?

I know when I worked at HD, we would not sell customers special order cabinets, ie. Kraftmaid, etc without us measuring and installing them.

#17
04-08-09, 05:02 PM
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Truth be told, we haven't decided if we are going to install or have them do it (yes I know the nature of this site but I will definitely be doing some of the work in the overall remodel). And yes, Lowes will sell us the cabinets without them installing.

#18
04-09-09, 11:06 AM
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First, I want to apollogize to XSleeper and Indiana for my bad jokes. XSleep is correct to round up.

During the '70s and '80s, studs were all 88-5/8=93-1/4" walls. Cabinet makers leave the base off for that very reason (fit in those shorter walls)

The amount of layers of floor you remove limits the width of crown trim above the cabinets, if the pantry is attached to other cabinets.

If it is stand alone, no problem, cut the base on it to gain more crown. Be safe, GBR

#19
04-09-09, 11:26 AM
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Just wondering...why does it have to be carried in horizontally? Could it be stood up in another room and then slid in on a piece of cardboard or blanket?

Guessing maybe all the entries to the room have lower heights than the kitchen ceiling?

#20
04-09-09, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by GBR in WA
The amount of layers of floor you remove limits the width of crown trim above the cabinets, if the pantry is attached to other cabinets.
The pantry will be attached to other to base and upper cabinets. I don't understand what you mean when you saying the layers of floor I remove will limit the width of the crown trim I can use. Can you explain further to me?
Originally Posted by Gunguy45
Just wondering...why does it have to be carried in horizontally? Could it be stood up in another room and then slid in on a piece of cardboard or blanket?

Guessing maybe all the entries to the room have lower heights than the kitchen ceiling?
Exactly. Plus the ceiling height is the same in all the rooms in the house, so I wouldn't be able to stand it upright anywhere.

#21
04-09-09, 05:17 PM
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Because you said your ceiling was 90 1/2 inches tall, I would think it was framed with the studs of that time. These were 88 5/8 inches +4 1/2 inches equal the total of 93 1/4 inches tall. If you add 1/2 inch sheet rock on the ceiling and 3/4+ 1/8 inches on the floor for particle board and linoleum, take that 1 3/8 inches subtracted from 93 1/4 inches. = 91 and 7/8 inches.

Yet you have 90 1/2 inches, a difference of 1 3/8 inches.

So either: your floor to ceiling measurement is wrong;
you have more thicknesses of sheet rock on the ceiling, then you realize;
you have more thicknesses of flooring than you realize;
or, you have a single top plate on your walls, which I doubt.

Crown molding: if you only have 1/2 inch over the top of your pantry cabinet, crown molding will be very small;
normally to get wide crown molding on the top of your cabinets, you just drop the cabinets sufficiently to allow for the thickness of the molding;

the problem arises because you only have a half-inch over-the-top pantry cabinet,(to get more you have to cut the base to allow more room above the cabinet). If the pantry is attached to base units, the bottoms of the doors and frames have to lineup the same distance from the floor.

If the pantry cabinet is self standing, not attached to others, then you can cut material from the base supporting it, thereby lowering the cabinet to get a wider crown molding. And just lower the rest of the uppers to facilitate the wider crown molding.
Be safe, GBR

#22
04-09-09, 06:08 PM
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I know the walls measure 90.5", and the floor is a total of ~1.625" which is comprised of: 2 layers of ply totaling 1.25", .25" luan and then 2 layers of linoleum (I was able to take off a cold air return in the dining room and get a good cross section view of the kitchen floor). I'm not sure how thick the ceiling sheet rock is, nor do I know if I only have 1 top plate. Does this help figure things out more?

#23
04-09-09, 10:57 PM
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Just have the cabinet maker build the pantry unit shorter, on the top end, to use any size crown, after you figure in the new finished floor height. Pulling the flooring will depend on the new floor material. The installer will set all the upper cabinets to match the modified pantry. Be safe, GBR

#24
04-10-09, 06:30 AM
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Pantry

If you can order the pantry as an upper and base unit, get specific measurements for the upper unit so you can verify that it will be possible to stand it up in your kitchen. I am recalling that the base unit mentioned in my previous post above was about 3.5 inches high. This would leave a rather tall upper unit to deal with.

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