Rock vs Hardiboard?

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Old 11-22-12, 12:08 PM
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I've always used 1/2" durock (or equivalent) on the walls, 1/4" hardi set in a mud bed for the floors (with proper subfloor structure). Never used 1/2" hardi for tiles, the 1/4" hardi is tricky enough to cut.
 
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Old 11-22-12, 12:14 PM
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Rock vs Hardiboard?

I am remodelling a masterbath. I have removed all present rock back to the studs. I want to tile all walls, in addition to the shower.. ie walls not exposed to wetness other than being in the bathroom. Concerning the areas not in the shower, and since I am starting with bare studs, would it be better to use 1/2 in Hardiboard screwed to the studs rather than sheetrock (not concerned about the difference in costs). I am thinking the hardiboard will save me time not having to prime the wall though both need to be taped.
In addition, I am installing a Jacuzzi and want to place the access door underneath (plenty of crawl space under the house). Should this be a problem. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
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Old 11-22-12, 02:35 PM
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I am assuming Czizzi is in a time warp, again. Welcome to the forums DWinn. Not sure why you would prime Hardibacker. Sheetrock is not approved for tile underlayment in a wet area. If you are talking about the remainder of the room, you can use regular sheetrock, or greenboard. Greenboard, according our paint guy has some problems with paint adherence, so be forewarned.
I am like Czizzi, I use 1/4 hardibacker on floors and 1/2" Durock on walls. Don't know why, just do.
I would not put an access hole underneath. Put it on the side where the motor and plumbing is. You don't want to go under the house to reset a tripped GFCI, or to quickly turn off the plumbing.
 
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Old 11-22-12, 06:33 PM
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I am a fan of Dens Shield for walls. https://www.gp.com/build/densshield-tilebacker-board Easy to cut and light weight. Even comes in 4x8 sheets if needed.

If your really want to use 1/2" Hardi cut it with a circular saw with a blade to cut cement board. Cut it outside with a dust mask though! *cough*
 
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Old 11-22-12, 06:47 PM
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I totally anticipated DWinn's question so I could be the first to post....
 
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Old 11-23-12, 03:13 AM
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Hey, you're good!!.......................
 
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Old 11-23-12, 06:12 PM
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Thanks to all who answered. My point/question of using hardiboard vs Durock on walls (in the remainder of the room.. not talking about the the shower) was to avoid the need to prime the walls... where sheetrock would require priming before setting tile to it. Will sheetrock be stiff enough on the walls to avoid any flexing of the grout joints later? Wouldn't adherence be better to the cementatious boards than the primed rock? Also in the shower is using rock vs hardiboard personal preference or is one felt to be better than the other? I find hardiboard a little easier to work with the few times I used it. I truely wanted to place the access door underneath because the jacuzzi is oval as is the framing making up the supporting walls. It is in the middle of the room, away from all walls so making a door on the side will be astheticaly difficult since it is curved and will have a mosaic tile on it. The GFCI circuit that it will be connected to will be within the bathroom as well as a switch to cut the power to it (this is the way the one I tore out was designed). As for the water shut off, I have a master valve for the whole house in the garage. Is acess underneath prohibited. Most people never use the things. The one I tore out was 22 years old and never accessed once. My main concern is cosmetic. I don't mind a little more trouble in the rare event of needing to get to it.
 
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Old 11-24-12, 04:57 AM
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No, access from beneath is not "prohibited", just make sure you insulate it all really well and have a door of sorts to separate it from critters. I had one client/builder who had his access from outside. He thought it would be easier to use. Yeah, except the controls and motor were on the opposite side of the tub. You almost had to crawl in the hole to service anything. He learned.

As for sheetrock vs cbu in non water areas, sheetrock will be fine, although cbu probably wouldn't cost any more. How high will your tile be in the room (dry area)? You will have to prime all the sheetrock anyway, so I don't see where you will be overburdened with priming the area to be tiled. Doesn't make sense. If you use cbu, don't extend it into a non tiled area. It doesn't finish well. That's why I asked how high your tile would be. You say the shower is using "rock". What type "rock"? Surely not sheetrock. Durock is fine.
 
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Old 11-24-12, 05:27 AM
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Again, Dens Shield (or similar) would be also be a perfect surface to install tile in the non-wet area. It is as easy to work with as sheet rock.
 
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Old 11-24-12, 05:58 AM
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They make flexible cement board that can be applied to curved surfaces. Permabase is one that comes to mind. Using sheet rock on your oval skirt means you would have to use something that was thinner than 1/2" so that it will bend, which in my opinion would not be sturdy enough to prevent tile issues down the road.

Unifix Inc. - PermaBase Flex

1/4" Hardi may be lighter which corresponds to easier, but not necessarily better. Cement backer boards, as well as sidings, are make up of layers. Under certain circumstances it can delaminate. This often happens when you nail/screw too close to the edge. They also require fasteners every 6" along the edges. IMO it works well on floors where you have it set in a mortar bed to help stabilize things. On a wall, it is a stand alone item without the added layers of backing materials to make up to total "sandwich" of base material. Cement boards in and of themselves are not structural, they are merely a suitable material for which to bond tile with thinset. The structure comes from the overall preparation. Therefore, I like a minimum 1/2" on the walls. If you go the 1/4" route, beef up the walls with cross blocking throughout the stud wall.
 
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Old 11-24-12, 07:26 AM
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Thanks again for everyones responses. I am definitely going to try and find some permabase flex Czizzi for the curves of the Jacuzzi.. the web site says it flexes to 90 degrees within 6 inches.. that's great though in this smaller community of Columbia, SC I may have trouble finding it close by. Chandler!.. in the dry areas I plan on tiling the entire walls all the way to the ceiling for a different look. This is why I was asking about using 1/2 inch CBU there instead of sheetrock though I knew I could use sheetrock there, but sheet rock must be primed before the tile and CBU does not and.... if the CBU will give it more strength and a better bonding surface then I will use CBU. For me, it comes down to which is stronger and renders the most solid finished product capable of an occasional bump here or there. One problem I guess is that CBU comes in 3x5 ft which means in larger applications in a dry area, there will be waste since studs are on 16 in centers. Of course the shower area will have CBU.. I always felt Hardiboard was easier to use than Durock though. (your thoughts there?) Also I think that I can put a door underneath the Jacuzzi literally right beside the pump and I have a 3 foot tall crawl space to work with as well. Toyln!! the nearest Denshield I can find in 90 miles away though I still don't know yet if Permashield Flex is near as well (still looking for that).
 
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Old 11-24-12, 07:39 AM
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Under tile heating?

Meant to ask also what do you guys feel about under tile heating systems as well (warms floor tiles). Are they worth it? cause problems later?
 
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