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Help installing a shower liner in my basement bathroom remodel

Help installing a shower liner in my basement bathroom remodel

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  #1  
Old 12-03-12, 11:35 AM
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Help installing a shower liner in my basement bathroom remodel

I finished framing out my new basement shower. The drain was already there so it speeds up my work. I have read that even though it's on the concrete slab I will need a liner or pan. I am going to be tiling everything and want max space so I want to use the PVC membrane liner- I just want to make sure I am installing in correctly.
-lay mortar sloping toward drain 1/8 slop per foot
(I have never done this but have an idea how, I make it smooth with a level piece of wood sloopIng toward drain. )
-lay the material in the shower 18" high on the studs and over the curb
(this should be layed to the studs since I didn't do the dryrock yet? Do I stretch it over the curb into the bathroom or just on top of the curb?
-should I put mortar on the curb slightly sloping it into the shower as well? Or do I do this with thin set and the tile after the liner is in?

Lastly this is about the curb. The shower and bathroom is already tight I was going to just lay 3 2x4s on top of each other making it 4.5" high and 3.5" wide bc then laying 1/2 dry rock gives me 5" high 4.5" wide then the tile adds another 1/2" this is fine right? Going to just use a curtin until down the line do a Framless sliding door when the money is better.
Thank you much in advance. Hoping get the curb and liner done today so I can start tiling tomorrow
 
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  #2  
Old 12-03-12, 12:15 PM
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You got about 70% correct. Rather than type, here is a link to the correct way to build a shower pan. Don't rush these steps, I know you are excited to get tiling. This needs to be done correctly and you only get one shot

How to build a shower - Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb.

Do not put any screws through the curb membrane. You wire mesh around and build your curb from there, nails/screws are on the outside of the curb only. Remember, you are building a water tight bowl. The toughest step is the curb building. They sell pre-shaped curbs although they are pricey.

You also need to make sure that you have plenty of beef in the wall studs adjacent to the curb as you will need to hang a heavy door there in the future. Minimum double 2x4 for strength.
 
  #3  
Old 12-04-12, 10:18 AM
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Thanks so much for the reply that link explained a whole lot. I got that 70% by just reading and want to be 100% before doing.

My buddy who does bath room remodel whom Ive been asking questions told me I lay the rubber down the mortar over to make the slope. This didn't make sense bc the concrete slab is flat so any water that leaks through won't be sloped toward the drain.

Is it necessary to lay the plastic and the roofing felt before laying the first mortar?

If a slope is made with mortar before putting in the rubber lining why is another slope made with the mortar over that

Is the mesh nessecary around the curb or can I just staple to the outside and build up the inside with cement?

Lastly I have a 2" copper pipe that's capped. In a 4" hole in the slab. I have to get a drain that covers the 4" hole in the slab? All the drains at home depot where PVC that buddy of my said to get a furnco to attach them together.

Thanks again really appreciate the help.

Any pointers a welcome also
 
  #4  
Old 12-04-12, 05:20 PM
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Your buddy doesn't know what he is doing. You use a 2 part drain, one drains water from on top of the tile, the other drains water that seeps below the tile. Not sloping the pan will cause moisture to settle in certain corners and not flow out toward the drain.

You are on a concrete slab so that portion of the build may not apply. You do want to get good adhesion of the floor mud to the concrete. Defer to the floor mud manufacturer instructions with regard to laying over concrete.

The second slope is so the water will flow on top of the tile toward the drain.

You will need to give the floor mud something to grab onto. Therefore the wire mesh on the curb is a necessary step.

You can furnco to your drain line and transition to PVC. Attach the furnco to the copper and then insert a straight piece of PVC pipe and tighten. Adjust the length of the PVC until it matches the desired height of the drain body. Then cement the drain body to the PVC.
 
  #5  
Old 12-04-12, 09:40 PM
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Yea pretty scary my buddy does this for a living and hires me as a help. I've watched a ton of videos and they all show the way you did.

I think I'm pretty much good to go:
In the videos the call the metal mesh metal lath- is this what I ask for?

I had already placed 3 2x4s on top of ea other for the curb. Should I mud over those studs on the top and inside part? Then lay the mat and the mash then mud again? Thank you so much
 
  #6  
Old 12-04-12, 10:51 PM
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Oops forgot. The bottom piece of the drain connects and will be directly on the concrete slab? This will just be held in by the connection to the copper pipe correct? Then I level the sub pan to that. Let it dry, lay the mat, feel for the bolts cut the bolts through and weep holes out, cut the center out seal the mat to the bottom flange, attach the top half of the drain, with spacers in the weep holes and mud.

Another video said don't cut the mat out from the center but to use plumbers putty around the flange before laying the mat, attach the top of the drain and fill with 2-3" water over night. If all is good cut the mat out of the center and water drains. Then I mud the pan and the curb. Put spacers over the weep holes in the mat at least a 1/4" then leave space for the tile and then the drain screen.

I was planing on doing it the second way. Did i leave anything out?
 
  #7  
Old 12-05-12, 05:48 AM
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Wire mesh lathe can be found usually near the rebar in the concrete section of your big box store.

The way you are describing flood testing your drain doesn't make any sense. If you do not cut out the center portion to expose the whole drain and the connections under the drain what have you accomplished? Pros flood test a drain with a small inflatable bubble on a long lead that is inserted down into the drain. It is then inflated and you pour a 5 gallon bucket of water into the pan and let set for 24 hrs. If you are water tight, you will still have the same amount of water the next day sitting in the pan. How are you testing anything to do with the drain if you don't cut a hole in the liner?

Lay the liner directly on the curb, then make your "U" shaped mesh pattern, slip over the curb, nail on the outside only, then mud to build your curb. This is by far the hardest part.

Mix you floor mud DRY. It should be just wet enough to form a shape when squeezed in your fist. Be patient when mudding the curb, it will frustrate you as you need to make it level, square, plumb and also tilt ever so slightly to allow drainage back into the shower. I sometimes will install the inside and outside tile of the curb slightly higher than are needed. Achieve my angles and then use the tile as rails and skim some thinset inside and let dry to get my smooth surface to put the cap on.

I also make little outside corners with leftover liner to try to better waterproof the extreme edges of the curb before I mud. The have liner cement to assist and I add some caulking for good measure.
 
  #8  
Old 12-05-12, 09:37 AM
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Thanks for clearling things up. I thought that is how the pros do the water test bit started thinking maybe it's just to test the rubber liner for holes.

How should I clog the hole so it's water tight and I can unclog it

Also with the curb. It's ok I made it out of the 3 2x4s. I just lay the liner over the 2x4s then Ushape the metal lath n put over the liner n 2x4s then mud etc

This may sound stupid but isn't the metal sharp on edges that will be touching the mat? Won't it rip?

Thanks again you deff really cleared things up
 
  #9  
Old 12-05-12, 01:35 PM
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You clog the holes with an inflatable bladder that is inserted into the drain below any connections you installed. Then you flood the area with water.

http://media.beta.photobucket.com/user/jfrwhipple/media/Kerdi%20Test%20Ball%20-%20Kerdi%20Drain%20Test%20Plug/SchluterSystemsKerdiTestPlug112.png.html?filters[term]=inflatable%20drain%20test%20plugs&filters[primary]=images

The shower pan liner is very thick, you will not puncture with the wire mesh. However, do not overly force and try to keep the cut ends of the mesh to the outside of the curb.

Stacked 2x4's are fine. Try to judge how thick your mud bed will be, plus the tile and make sure you still have 1 1/2 or 2 inches left to the curb. If you have not already installed, glue them together and to the subfloor with liquid nails for subfloors.
 

Last edited by czizzi; 12-05-12 at 01:40 PM. Reason: include link
  #10  
Old 12-06-12, 02:05 PM
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Thanks again for the help. Once I got the metal lath I was able to see the edges arent sharp and like you said after I cut it I'll just use the cut side on the out side.

As for the inflatable bladder where can I get one? I dont believe I saw Anythibg at homedepot? Is there any Jimmy ridged sort of thing I can make up at home.

Ran into a little problem with the drain. The copper pipe coming out of the foundation is to long. Whn I put the fercon on the copper and add just enough PVC to connect both the drain it's sitting 1 1/2 about the slab. Ppl at plumbing supply and home depot said I have to break the concrete around it to fit a pipe cutter.... No way I wanted to do that so I found a pipe cutter that hooks to the drill and cuts from the inside. Now I'm sitting flush with the floor and ready to mud.

Also should I attend to the water lines before or after I start the pans? Not sure if it's good to be standing an working in there till it's done. But I still didn't get water exchange etc yet 1 bc local store was out 2 didn't pick tile out going to get it tomorrow. So I was going to just run the hot and colds out of the main lines up to where it will be so the time I am standing on the pan in limited.

Or should I wait until the floor is tiled to work in there
 
  #11  
Old 12-06-12, 04:59 PM
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Prep the drain and pan as stated, then put 2 layers of cardboard down on the pan and continue you work on plumbing above the pan.
 
  #12  
Old 12-06-12, 05:50 PM
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Great thank you. Got the drain attached. Got the sub pan gonna wait for it to dry and lay the mat and water test tomorrow.

Is there any way to plug the drain with something around the house? I didn't see the inflatable bladders but I also didn't ask

Also I attached the curb to the slab
With nails and A pellet loading gun
 
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