How much to install shower bed?


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Old 04-23-14, 08:17 AM
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How much to install shower bed?

I have a small mstr bath with a 3x6 insert I removed. The demo is complete and I added support under the floor. Just need to have a skilled person lay the sealing mat and glue, put down the cement and create the slope to the drain. Most likely, I'll do all the tile myself.

If I can find someone to do the work this way, what should I expect to pay to have the cement and slope installed?

No drains need to be moved. The plan is to get the slope installed, then take my time with the tile.

Thanks for any help or suggestions.
-Steve
 
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Old 04-23-14, 08:24 AM
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Steve. Welcome to the forums. Several avenues to take. You can have a cultured marble base built and installed; locate a fiberglas pan to fit your opening; or build from scratch. Costs would be too variable for each part of the country for us to speculate. I would obtain 3 bids on the job and choose from there. Here is an invaluable site to let you know how it is supposed to be done. Just laying down membrane then cementing on top won't get it. Good luck and let us know if you have further questions.How to build a shower - Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb.
 
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Old 04-23-14, 09:36 AM
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Thanks Chandler. Those step by step instructions were one of the things I was looking for. That page gives the steps info better than most I've found. I prefer to do everything myself, but this is one of those things where an un-noticed mistake (leak) means having to take the entire thing apart a week later.

I understand the geographic price variance. Could you give a ballpark though perhaps? Or maybe give the cost for where you are and I'll do the math from there. :-) Am I looking at $1000 to get it to a point where I can begin to put down tile? I'm sure the prices will still vary, but if it's going to be that much, I'll have to figure out how to do it myself.

Thanks again for any info... even if there is no more. I appreciate your help.

-Steve
 
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Old 04-23-14, 03:21 PM
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Once you put the membrane down, and seal with the drain body, you flood test the installation prior to building the 2nd slope or lay any tile. Basically, you inflate a small balloon inside the drain pipe and then pour 5 to 10 gallons of water into the pan. Let it sit for a couple of days. This is how you determine a leak free pan. I don't think that step is shown in the demonstration. You can purchase the test balloons at a plumbing supply store.

I also cut tapered shims that go from the drain out to each corner and also each center wall point. These give you a pre-determined slope that you pack with bed mortar. Then remove the shims and fill in void with more bed mortar. Gives you your sloped floor without having to be a master. These can be purchased as well from a tile store. I am frugal, and cut my own out of 2x4's.

I think you can handle this portion and put that money toward some decorative glass accent tile for your new shower.
 
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Old 04-25-14, 04:01 PM
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I'm going to do my typical over done analyzation of it all tonight and tomorrow. I'll likely cut my own slope as well. I hadn't thought of that before. The drain will not be in the center though.

When I removed the old shower insert, I also removed 12" of dead wall space behind the faucet and can build a larger shower now. I'm moving the hot & cold pipes back, but not the main drain which was 4" off the faucet wall. When standing in the shower, facing the faucet, the back of our shaded house is behind you. This 2nd floor has 24" over-hang. If I move the drain back to be the absolute center, then it will be subject to freezing in winter.

I could move it forward to be 4" off the faucet wall again, but then I still have an uncentered slope. I'm ok with the drain being 16" off the faucet wall. Which means building my own custom slope guides is more feasible.

I love this stuff. I'm a 40 year old husband/father who got stuck being a computer engineer, but love building stuff. I just get excited and take too much time to analyze it. So my wife says.

I'll check in with before and after pics and the story or maybe more questions.

Thanks again!
-Steve
 
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Old 04-25-14, 04:18 PM
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typical over done analyzation
Nothing wrong with doing your homework. Saves on surprises down the road. I'm proud that you are going to tackle this, it is within you skill set.

Plan on smaller format tile (2"x2") for the shower floor as it is more forgiving to slight variations in the pan shape. Keys to watch for are level at all the walls (I use a level to draw hard lines to start with for reference), all points slope toward the drain (use a speed level). I would also recommend Big Orange's lightweight bedding mortar as it is fairly easy to scrape to correct flaws after things have dried. One of the challenges is to set the drain body correctly to the tile height. Err on the slightly high side as you can build up the tile to match. If slightly small, cut a larger clearance from tile to drain body and float it with grout to smooth the transition.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 02:06 PM
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Got my liner, cement, backerBrd and the extras today. Got sidetracked with my daughter's adjusted soccer schedule this week. That + plus my eagerness to get to the fun part and forgot I still need to move the hot&cold pipes back. No biggie. Already built the new pipe exchange. Just need to shut the water off, cut the line and install the new pieces...when the wife can live without water for an hour. :-)

We have plenty of 2x2" tile sheets for the shower floor that were left over from a friend's wall last year. My only concern is the sharp edge of these tiles. The last second of the video focuses clearly on the edge.

The drain pipe sticks up 3" above the current plywood floor. I may lay down a sheet of 7/16" plywood before the liner to add support and raise the floor.

2 questions:
Do you have any opinion on the edge of the tiles? Is it no worry...or the grout between them will fill it level as long as I'm careful when I do it...or should I let the grout sink down enough to put some sort of caulk (that sounds wrong for some reason).

Should I cut and lower that drain pipe? Seems like a lot of concrete to slope down down it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdnxdChIoy8 Thanks again for your comments. I'll be looking at this room for years to come and hope to be proud of the details when I do.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 07:07 PM
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I just found this link from your previous link.
How to build a ceramic tile showerpan using mortar bed, Kerdi membrane and Kerdi drain

Those look like the same tiles we have. If so, then I just need to know what the proper grout or mortar is. We like the way it looks in that link.
 
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Old 04-26-14, 07:18 PM
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Remember you must build your preslope first no matter what you use, whether Kerdi or a pvc liner. Use modified thinset to set the Kerdi and your tile. Use sanded grout (I prefer a little darker than the tile so it won't show skuz)
 
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Old 04-27-14, 08:14 AM
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You should be find with your rectified tiles, once grouted, shouldn't notice the hard edges. It gives it a clean look.

I would lay down an additional 3/4" and cut the piece to close tolerance around the drain pipe. You will want the drain body resting on the subfloor not floating in an open hole. Build you curb up accordingly to at least 3 2x4's laying flat with liquid nails between layers. Don't forget 2x10 or 12 blocking between the studs to support the pan liner. Lastly, make sure you have sufficient wall studs located adjacent to the curb area so that you can hand a shower door securely down the road.
 
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Old 05-09-14, 02:54 PM
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After breaking for multiple flat tires, sick kids and late work nights, I'm back to my master bathroom.

I put in 2 layers of 7/16 OSB down to raise the floor as I had it left over. When my compressor charges I'll nail the 2x10 pieces between the studs. Most are tight and barely need nails, but will still get them.

I ran into a problem with the incoming path holes for the hot and cold as you can see at the end of the video. I cut the holes the same distance from the edge of the wood as the previous entry points, but now I can't fit the 2x10 in there. I'd cut new holes, but I already cut and installed the new hot and cold lines underneath so they line up to these holes. I just need to install the PVC from them up to the faucet when she picks one out. :-)

Questions:
So, do i put the 2x10 wood in with few nails and remove it after laying the cement?

Or do I use some thin panel wood nailed to the studs and accept a bump out there that will eventually be under backer board and tile?

If you pause the video and scroll back to the first second, you get a good look at the drain height.

Does that drain look too tall or short before the 2 slabs go it? I can remove a layer of the 7/16 OSB if that's better.

Thanks again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EKIJcP0m84
 
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Old 05-09-14, 04:04 PM
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Take your blocking and run a series of cuts in the wood at a depth that allows clearance for your rough in supply lines and nail it in place. The blocking gives the shower pan something to support it from sagging and needs not be overly structural.

Height of the drain will depend on the multi part drain body and not the drain pipe. Overall drain body unit should initially sit flush to the floor prior to installing your pre-slope. Refer to the instructional tutorial previously posted.
 
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Old 05-10-14, 02:57 PM
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Guess I need to cut that drain pipe down some.

I'll check out the hardware store options on the connections before cutting. Maybe I'll make it to the liner before checking back again.

Thanks!
 
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Old 12-27-14, 11:34 AM
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I grabbed the wrong pvc cement can when glueing the valve connections that runs my hot and cold pipes up. The valve is connected to the source pipes with the correct purple and then yellow cpvc glue, but weeks later I glued the connection that runs from the other side of the shutoff valves up to my shower valve with purple and "regular clear pvc" glue. I just reached back and grabbed the wrong can and didn't notice it till today since I'm about to connect the shower valve.

How bad of a screw is this? Can I expect trouble if I don't replace the valves and cpvc pipes with the correct glue connections? I don't mind the work. It's the 17 miles to the hardware store today that's making me question this.
 
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Old 12-27-14, 05:09 PM
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I was hoping that someone else would chime in for you. I have zero experience with cpvc. All supply lines I have worked with have been either copper or pex. However, your temperature rating on regular pvc glue is "up to 110 degrees". Most domestic water supply is from a water heater is usually closer to the 120 degree mark, which exceeds your current set up. I would correct now and not after you have already buttoned things up and discover a leak. Regular pvc glue is also not really rated for a pressurized supply side. It is formulated for ambient air pressures in the drain/waste line area.
 
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Old 12-28-14, 04:48 AM
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Most of my house is plumbed with cpvc. I always buy the multi purpose cement which can be used on either cpvc or pvc. I agree with Z, I wouldn't trust the wrong cement especially when there is the propensity of damage if it fails - better to play it safe!
 
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Old 12-28-14, 08:36 AM
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Thank you both. I'm replacing those connections today.

My guest bathroom linen closet is adjacent to the back wall of my master bath shower. I installed an access panel for future work on the shower valve if ever needed. But even with that in place, replacing the bad joints will never be easier than it will be today. Thank you for tipping the scales in the right direction.

Annoyed as I am at how long this is taking me and how little time I have to work on it, I'm going to miss this project when I'm done. My wife thinks there's something wrong with me. lol
 
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Old 12-28-14, 12:37 PM
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Wives rarely understand the construction process but almost always brag on the finished product
It always takes longer to do a job that isn't your main profession but when you diy you can know it's done right along with a lot of satisfaction Add some age into the project and it takes even longer
 
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Old 12-29-14, 09:08 AM
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Will tape alone suffice for the brass fittings on the shower handle valve? I've read many conflicting viewpoints on the Google that I'm not certain if I should undo this and go buy some pipe dope or joint compound before I mount it in the wall.

If I should use Pipe joint compound, then will Premier PTFE do? It has NSF and UPC logo markers.

http://youtu.be/JJNpQHomxmU Thanks
 
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Old 12-29-14, 09:24 AM
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If your mean where the brass thread meets the cpvc thread - use teflon tape.
 
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Old 12-29-14, 10:02 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply.
It's actually the connections where the pink tape already is. I already wrapped and tightened them with tape only. These are brass to brass fittings The small bit of cpvc showing on the left and right sides of the brass are part of a sharkbite piece that is one piece (a female brass thread with a cpvc piece that will be glued to the elbows).

I'm wondering if I should unscrew the 3 connections that currently have only tape and then re-screw with both tape and PTFE compound. If tape alone will suffice, I'm fine with it. I got them on pretty tight without going too far and stripping, but I lack an understanding of whether the best practice would be to use the compound as well as the tape on those 3 joints.

My understanding is that tape is a lubricant and compound helps seal, but many people say a good brass fitting done right technically doesn't need either. But they suggest tape to help tighten it better without seizing.
 
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Old 12-29-14, 10:09 AM
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I'm a painter, not a plumber and I remember using pipe dope on galvanized pipes but can't remember if I used on brass/copper ...... but the plumbers should be along later with better info for your
 
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Old 12-30-14, 08:22 AM
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I unscrewed the fittings, cautiously and gently cleaned the pink tape leavings off both the male and female threads so as not to scratch the interior of any thread. Then redid it using the thinner white teflon tape and also PTFE pipe compound (brand was Premier, but I think RectorSeal would have been better if I could find it). The valve is installed and the last 2 fittings for the shower head & its source are both Sharkbites.

I only need to close up the wall, RedGaurd it and get to work on the first tile job I've ever done. My stepfather did an incredible job tiling his new addition a few years ago and lent me his tile cutter. All I have to do now is change my mind 3 or 4 times on the exact tile and design and then I can begin making tile installation mistakes.

I hope all my questions help others. This forum has been instrumental in getting me through the tough spots. Czizzi in particular has been a great help. Thank you to all who offer suggestions.
 
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Old 12-30-14, 10:33 AM
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Thanks for the shout out Know that we will be here for the tile portion of your project as well.

While not the best tutorial, here is some advance reading on building a shower pan from scratch with a preslope. Our favorite link died a month or two ago. This will get you in the ballpark. Check back prior to starting and we will fill in the minor missing blanks. How to Create a Shower Floor – Part 1
 
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Old 01-04-15, 11:29 AM
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About ready to RedGaurd my shower. The wife wants a bench so I'm working on that and then I can go to the RedGaurd.

One of the smaller walls is the exterior wall opposite the faucet and I used insulation that comes with a vapor barrier. The plastic does overlap most studs so I'm concerned about a mold sandwich. I'm considering option # 2 below

Option # 1) Pull part of the wall down and replace the insulation. Not at all what I want to do.

Option # 2) When I install the bench against this back wall, I could RedGaurd the 17" tall bench and also going up the wall another 6" above the seat. Also RedGaurd only the seams and corners\edges on that one wall. Then RedGaurd the rest of the entire shower from floor to ceiling. The exterior shower wall uses Durock.

Option # 3) RedGaurd the entire shower floor to ceiling and hope that the insulation's vapor barrier doesn't work that wall.

Also, is there anything else I can do to the bathroom that would help prevent mold. such as a heated floor (not in the shower of course), a high quality ceiling fan or a heat lamp...anything that might help keep the room dry.

I do understand the pitfalls of only RedGaurding the seams on that wall, but if I don't get this done soon, I'll be stuck with projects at work and won't get back to the bathroom until summer.

Thanks!
-Steve
 
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Old 01-04-15, 12:12 PM
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I usually build my bench out of lumber, cover it with my vapor barrier/membrane, cover that with cement board, tape/mud all seams and then redgard. I have some concerns about waterproofing the bench area more so than mold behind the cement board. As you can see from the attached, this is the first layer of waterproofing on top of the framing. I then over lapped this from the top of the wall down.

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