Bathroom Remodeling Questions


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Old 08-07-14, 10:04 PM
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Bathroom Remodeling Questions

I knew when I bought this first home of mine that I'd need to remodel the bathroom, which was in very sad shape.

I pulled up the cheap, cracked vinyl and found the subfloor was pretty soft, definitely in need of replacement. I want to put a bit of money into the bathroom, so I also removed the shower surround, and I'm considering replacing the bathtub (opinions?).

My plan is to tile the floor and the shower surround. Considering this, what subfloor should I put down and how should I do it? It is just a matter of cutting it to size, then securing it to the joists? I haven't decided whether I'll be replacing the bathtub. Does the tub sit on the floor, requiring me to pull it, or on the joists themselves? Where can I find more information on building the tile shower surround?

A few of my DIY friends have asked me why I won't be laying the tile myself. They'd help me, they all live in other states. Is it difficult to do it yourself and have good results?



I noticed this was a little odd, the way they did the drywall. It looks like the tub didn't quite fit between the studs, so they extended them, then extended the drywall. It looks very unprofessional in my opinion, what's the best way to correct this so everything is flush?







Another thing is the exhaust fan above the shower, which has clearly seen better days. I purchased one of these Panasonic recessed fans, but I'm not sure how one would go about fixing the ceiling and reducing the size of the hole. A buddy of mine said the ceiling is lath and plaster, but I didn't think they used lath and plaster in the 1970's (when this condo was built)?

imgur: the simple image sharer

If you have any other ideas for this mini-bathroom, I'd love to hear them
 
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Old 08-08-14, 05:10 AM
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Needs a total gut job.
Wrong style tub for tiling, no way to finish out the wall to except tile with that curve.
Studs should have been shimmed out across the whole wall so the drywall will be flat.
Loosing that textured ceiling would be a good thing, impossible clean.
Wrong drywall used.
Subfloor should have been 3/4 tonged and grooved Advantech with construction adhesive on the joist, then a layer of subfloor rated ( NOT CDX!) at least 3/8, 1/2" would be better.
No glue under it, laid so the seams do not line up with the seams below, never nailed into the floor joist.
Needs to be fastened every 4" on the edges and 6 to 8" in the field.
The best way to attach is with a narrow crown pneumatic nail gun.
Then 1/4 tile board set in thin set.
 
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Old 08-08-14, 05:29 AM
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As Joe said, that tub isn't conducive to a tile surround. What are the measurements of the tub?

Since the ceiling has a bad tape job, I'd skim coat the ceiling, prime and paint ..... unless you plan to replace the ceiling.

IMO regular drywall is fine for a bath rm application especially if it's primed and painted with latex enamel. You'd use cement board and not drywall behind tile for the tub surround.
 
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Old 08-08-14, 05:50 AM
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One observation. If you can't get that base through your door in one piece, you won't get another one in. You may be relegated to building a packed base from scratch, which is not all that bad, just a bit of work. We can help with it. Good reading: How to build a shower - Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb.
 
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Old 08-08-14, 12:02 PM
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Needs a total gut job.
Alright then, that's what I'll do!

Wrong style tub for tiling, no way to finish out the wall to except tile with that curve.
Studs should have been shimmed out across the whole wall so the drywall will be flat.
I was thinking about it a lot last night, and I think I actually want to eliminate the tub in favor of a tiled walk-in shower. What do you guys think of this kit?

Schluter-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT - Schluter-Systems

I figured there was something they 'should' have done differently. My guess is they didn't want to reduce the size of the bathroom further. Still, looks like crap.

Loosing that textured ceiling would be a good thing, impossible clean.
Good to know. In another thread I mentioned I purchased a new Panasonic exhaust fan with a recessed light, and asked how I'd go about fixing the ceiling. Will I need attic access to fix/replace the bathroom ceiling? A friend said it was a plaster ceiling, but it was built in 1970. Why would they do that?

Old Fan:



New Fan:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36094[/ATTACH]

Wrong drywall used.
Which drywall should have been used? Considering I'm gutting everything, should I replace the drywall with the correct stuff while I'm in there? It's always more expensive to do it twice, and I want this to last.

Subfloor should have been 3/4 tonged and grooved Advantech with construction adhesive on the joist, then a layer of subfloor rated ( NOT CDX!) at least 3/8, 1/2" would be better.
No glue under it, laid so the seams do not line up with the seams below, never nailed into the floor joist.
Needs to be fastened every 4" on the edges and 6 to 8" in the field.
The best way to attach is with a narrow crown pneumatic nail gun.
Then 1/4 tile board set in thin set.
I'm making a note of all of this, because I want to do it right. Sounds like I need to pull up everything and replace it, right?

As Joe said, that tub isn't conducive to a tile surround. What are the measurements of the tub?

Since the ceiling has a bad tape job, I'd skim coat the ceiling, prime and paint ..... unless you plan to replace the ceiling.

IMO regular drywall is fine for a bath rm application especially if it's primed and painted with latex enamel. You'd use cement board and not drywall behind tile for the tub surround.
The tub is 59", the bathroom is 60" stud to stud (59" with drywall). I mentioned above, I think I'm going to do a tiled walk-in shower instead.

I'm not exactly sure what the ceiling is made of yet, or how to fix it to make it look like it should. What's the best way to find out? I'll replace it if I have to.

Are there different types or preferred brands of cement board, or is it pretty much the same?

One observation. If you can't get that base through your door in one piece, you won't get another one in. You may be relegated to building a packed base from scratch, which is not all that bad, just a bit of work. We can help with it. Good reading: How to build a shower - Building a shower pan with pre-sloped mortar bed, liner and curb.
Thanks, I'll check that out.

I really appreciate all the help guys!
 
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Old 08-08-14, 01:45 PM
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Your first set of pics shows what looks like a bad tape job at the corner, the pic in your last post [of the old ceiling fan] looks like a plaster ceiling. It's possible someone did a poor tape job over the plaster to hide a crack. Plaster veneer is still being used today although now instead of lath, they install blueboard [drywall designed for plaster veneer] Not sure what you have but if it's sound, it can be repaired.

Most tubs are 60" in length so it might take some modification if you replace the tub. The biggest drawback to replacing the tub with a shower is IF there isn't another tub in the house it might affect the resell value.

Some of the older codes call for greenboard [moisture resistant drywall] but you don't really need it and regular drywall paints better. Generally if the drywall is primed and painted with latex enamel [bath enamel is even better] it has all the protection from moisture it's going to need.
 
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Old 08-08-14, 02:16 PM
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Glad to see you want to do the walk in shower. You are on the right track with the info I gave as well as the Ditra/Kerdi info. Study well and ask us questions. We are glad to help. You have to do the work
 
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Old 08-09-14, 10:13 AM
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Yesterday afternoon I removed the tub and pulled up the particle board to see what was underneath. I'll be replacing all the flooring.









Your first set of pics shows what looks like a bad tape job at the corner, the pic in your last post [of the old ceiling fan] looks like a plaster ceiling. It's possible someone did a poor tape job over the plaster to hide a crack. Plaster veneer is still being used today although now instead of lath, they install blueboard [drywall designed for plaster veneer] Not sure what you have but if it's sound, it can be repaired.

Most tubs are 60" in length so it might take some modification if you replace the tub. The biggest drawback to replacing the tub with a shower is IF there isn't another tub in the house it might affect the resell value.

Some of the older codes call for greenboard [moisture resistant drywall] but you don't really need it and regular drywall paints better. Generally if the drywall is primed and painted with latex enamel [bath enamel is even better] it has all the protection from moisture it's going to need.
What would you recommend I do for the ceiling? I've come this far, I want to make sure it's done correctly.

I thought about the resale value, but I'm honestly not planning on ever selling the place.

Good to know about the drywall, I thought replacing it with the bathroom stuff was a must.

Glad to see you want to do the walk in shower. You are on the right track with the info I gave as well as the Ditra/Kerdi info. Study well and ask us questions. We are glad to help. You have to do the work
I'm really enjoying it so far, but it's only been demolition work. I'm looking forward to doing this myself, and I really appreciate the help.
 
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Old 08-09-14, 03:20 PM
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What would you recommend I do for the ceiling
A lot depends on the current condition and what else you need to do. If it's sound, it's easy to patch up and make it look nice but if you need to open it up for wiring and such, then it may be easier/quicker to tear it out and replace.

If there is an attic with blown insulation above the bath rm that would also be something to consider as the cellulose will fall down if the ceiling is removed.
 
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Old 08-10-14, 06:40 PM
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Thanks Mark, it looks like it's solid and in good shape.

Today I pulled up a piece of the plywood subfloor, and it left me quite confused. I expected to see full length joists, evenly spaced. Is there such a term as 'abstract carpentry'? I was happy to see so much space between my condo and the one below, but surprised there wasn't any insulation. Should I add it? Would it cut down on the noise transmitted from solid floors?







Further, this piece of subflooring is under the wall separating the bathroom from one of the bedrooms. I thought the frame of the wall would sit on the actual joists, then the subfloor would butt up against it, but I don't know much about this stuff :no:




There's definitely evidence that moisture was there, and the top layer of plywood has separated in two places, but it looks like all of it is solid. I don't see any evidence of any water or rot now. Considering it runs under the wall to the right, is it worth replacing it, or should I just lay my backerboard over it and proceed? I wasn't able to determine if the subfloor also ran under the wall on the left and/or the far wall.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 04:26 AM
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That is very strange framing Because the color of the wood is different I suspect that odd ball piece is someone's attempt at a repair [the color of wood changes as it ages] I'd want to replace plywood that is delaminating although I'd probably stop at the wall. Installing a 2nd layer of plywood over it might be enough ..... but I'm a painter not a carpenter - wait and see what they say.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 04:35 AM
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Why does that joist end abruptly? It should carry all the way through to the wall. Weird framing for sure. Layer over your subflooring with 1/2" plywood, screwing it in place with 1 1/4" decking screws, intentionally missing the joisting, and no glue. What do you plan for a finished floor?
 
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Old 08-11-14, 12:42 PM
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That is very strange framing Because the color of the wood is different I suspect that odd ball piece is someone's attempt at a repair [the color of wood changes as it ages] I'd want to replace plywood that is delaminating although I'd probably stop at the wall. Installing a 2nd layer of plywood over it might be enough ..... but I'm a painter not a carpenter - wait and see what they say.
Why does that joist end abruptly? It should carry all the way through to the wall. Weird framing for sure. Layer over your subflooring with 1/2" plywood, screwing it in place with 1 1/4" decking screws, intentionally missing the joisting, and no glue. What do you plan for a finished floor?
These were my exact thoughts! Though I'm very new to all of this, it doesn't make sense as to why it'd be done that way.

I was hoping someone would say it'd be enough to lay another sheet of plywood over it, since I really don't think the condition warrants replacement (it's not soft at all). I'm planning on tile flooring and a walk-in shower along that wall. Will that be sturdy enough? Could I use a thicker cement board in place of the additional plywood, or would that be a bad idea? I like larger tile, I'm thinking 12x12.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 12:46 PM
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Cement board has no structural qualities, it's only purpose is to give a good base for the tile. Installing plywood on top of the existing sound plywood is acceptable providing it will set flat on the old.
 
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Old 08-11-14, 04:47 PM
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Great to know, that'll save me a lot of work (and risk to the ceiling of the condo below!).
 
 

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