Kitchen gut and renovate...

Hi everyone, I just joined this site and want to get your opinions...

I'm new to DIY home repairs. I just gutted my kitchen but left the first layer of drywall around exterior walls (dont want to deal with the blown in insulation falling out). I dont want to remove the cabinets either.

Should I put up more drywall? or an this drywall be repaired and plastered over?






-Sam

 

Welcome to the forums Sam!

Are you sure the walls have blown insulation? most have batts although older homes that were built with no insulation often have it blown into the stud cavities. Removing the drywall allows you to update wiring and add framing if needed to better secure the cabinets.

Most any drywall can be repaired although sometimes it's easier/quicker to replace or laminate over it. Laminating the drywall would necessitate adding an extension to the window jambs so the casing will fit correctly.

 

Generally you don't plaster over drywall, either.

What are you end plans for this space?

 

Yes, all exterior walls have blown in insulation. I had it done 2 years ago.

The exterior wall drywall is in decent shape but it is only 3/8". I'm going to patch up some holes with more 3/8th an put 1/2" on studs (interior wall). I think just the 3/8' should be fine. I don't want to go over it all again with more drywall.

Before I get the walls compounded, I have to replace the kitchen window and repair rotted wood around the small window.

I also have to take off the radiator which is full of water... any ideas on that as well

 

The plan is to modernize an old Kitchen.

Needs new floor (maybe hardwood or laminate), granite counter-tops (already own slabs and have company to cut/install), tile back-splash, repaint cabinets, compound over drywall and resurface ceiling(professional doing it)

 

While not ideal, 3/8" drywall is ok provided the studs are on 16" centers [or less] You could laminate with 1/4" drywall if you decide to go that direction.

 

I know you want to get by with as little mess and work as possible, but from someone who does it for a living, I say take it back to the studs, remove the cabinets and reinsulate. Your blown in is probably settled to about 80% of its original loft, so being in the position to install all your updated wiring, plumbing, insulation, then start with the "pretty" stuff, you will be better off.

 

Larry has a good point - a little more work now makes for a better job down the road.

 

So we really dont have any new wiring schemes or plumbing....

Removing all the cabinets and drywall behind it is just too much. There has to be a balance between doing this the correctly and efficiently.

 

So next I need to replace this window... i got a new one which is about 5 inches taller. Is it ok to go down a few inches and still put an outlet under it? Is there a code to how high above the counter an outlet needs to be?

 

Well, you aren't going to put a receptacle directly over that sink, anyway, so it would be a moot point. Your receptacles will go outboard of that window. If you plan on a countertop splash, it will most likely be above that splash, which is usually 3" or so tall. Again, from experience, a window 5" taller will cause problems with exterior siding as well, so keep that in mind when you plan. An exact replacement size would be optimum.

 

Yet you're planning a receptacle where none was before. From where will that power come? Are you up to current code on kitchen small appliance circuits?

 

I am not up to code. I will be putting in GFCI outlets and i have to look up the spacing regulations.

 

Kitchen counter receptacles are to be spaced no more than four feet apart. Any space 12 inches or more in width needs a receptacle. Kitchens require, at minimum, two "small appliance branch circuits" (sabc) of 20 amperes each. I personally find this to be an outdated rule and would install no less than three 20 ampere circuits. Remember, receptacles in a pantry and dining room must also be considered small appliance branch circuits. No lighting may be connected to a sabc and no receptacles other then kitchen counter, pantry and dining room may be on a sabc.

It appears that the drain from the sink is an "S" trap rather than a vented "P" trap and if so that needs to be corrected. If any of the piping in the walls is galvanized steel that needs to be replaced.

 

Thank you to everyone who as given me advice, much appreciated

I ended up just removing all the cabinets.... it seemed like the right thing to do.

I just finished pulling up two hideous vinyl roll-on floors. I am still undecided about taking down the remaining 3/8' drywall on the outside walls (because they are holding up blown in insulation) but it might be the best way to go.

NEXT,
-scrap the flooring glue off the subfloor
-replace the big window and repair the smaller window sill (rotted)
-sort out the outlet placement, use GFCI where needed
-prep for drywall (either over existing 3/8" or on studs)

I already picked up some 1/2" drywall, 1/2" blueboard, 1/2" cement board, and some 3/8" drywall for repairs.

 

So Im thinking I really should just take down all the remaining drywall and blown in insulation... it seems like the right thing to do for the electrical, and to get the new sink P trap vented...

 

I agree, stripping ALL down to the studs is the right way to do it.

 

Better to remove it now than to wish you had done it later

 

An interesting development when I removed the remaining drywall....

The blown in insulation stayed in place. I think I'm just going to work around it for the electrical and just fill in the holes. What do you guys think?

 

I think you are done. It was mentioned in a previous post, but I would move that 3-gang box to the left of window instead of under it. Better yet is to eliminate the disposer switch, make it a 2 gang box and install a sink top disposer switch. JMO. Keep in mind that any breaks in the counter such as a sink or cook top, and the spacing rule starts over.

 

So i ended up just taking out all the blown in insulation. Next I plan on doing the wiring scheme with my friend who is an electrician.

Anyone know any websites that lets you design and print out wiring layouts?

 

Furd said:
Furd,

Are you sure its 4 feet between counter receptacles? This site says 2 feet.

Kitchen Electrical Code Basics - Home Renovations

"3. Distance Between GFCIs Over Countertops
Allow no more than 24 inches between countertop receptacles."

 

Yes, I'm sure. The code does NOT state receptacles every 24 inches, it states that no place on the counter may be more than 24 inches from a receptacle. Place the receptacles 48 inches apart and there will be no space further than 24 inches from a receptacle. Twenty five inches from one receptacle will be within twenty three inches of the next receptacle.

 

Ahhhhh...... that makes more sense. Thanks!

 

I don't see knob and tube wiring in your pictures and that is good however I suggest you have your friend who is an electrician check at least part of the ceiling where the fan is for Knob and tube. If present knob and tube should be replaced especially where insulation will be present. Also while more expensive you may want to have your kitchen spray foamed for insulation. At the very least use batts of insulation if you have enough room for them and if not you may need to stud out a bit for batt insulation.

 

If your friend is an electrician, you should be OK.

Basically follow the 2 foot rule and have at least 2 20 amp small appliance circuits for counter area. Breaks in counter, such as a range, sink or cook top and the 2 foot rule starts over.

I work on kitchens almost exclusively and like to see the following:

- 2 small appliance circuits as mentioned, tamper resistant GFCIs
- Disposer and Dishwasher on separate dedicated circuits, with dishwasher receptacle inside sink base cabinet
- Dedicated 20 amp circuit above range for Microwave Hood or future use
- Since you have the walls open, you could also run cable for under cabinet lighting if desired

 

Code mandates a MINIMUM of two small appliance branch circuits. I personally think this is woefully out of date and would never install less than three SABCs. Remember, any receptacle in a pantry or a dining area (including a breakfast nook) must also be on a SABC. Further, any fixed appliance that uses more than 50% of a circuit's ultimate capacity (10+ amperes in the case of a 20 ampere circuit) must be on a dedicated circuit. No lighting or other receptacles may be included on a SABC.

 

After today.... still have one non-insulated wall to do, but should be able to start putting in fiberglass and a moister barrier.

 

Just a reminder. Both the disposer and dishwasher receptacles should be inside the sink base cabinet. Dishwasher and disposer will both have cords. Dishwasher receptacle should not be behind the unit.

 

The 15 amp wire for the dishwasher needs to come from behind the sink? That doesn't seem to make sense. Shouldn't it come from under the dishwasher because it gets wired to the front of the washer anyway?

 

In the past, dishwashers were hard wired. It's much better to be able to unplug it from under the sink rather than opening up the wiring box on dishwasher and risking shock, or pulling unit out and unplugging.
Some components under the dishwasher are intentionally left ungrounded and there's risk.

Don't quote me, but I believe under the current NEC, hard wiring is no longer allowed and was never desired.

 

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Hi Everyone!

I know it's been a while but I just thought I would share some pictures of the finished kitchen.

Thanks for all your help!

 

Looks nice! ..........

 

Thanks for the update; we don't get to see the 'after' pictures often enough.

 

This looks very nice and professional quality

I need to point out that the cabinet above the range is a code violation.
I mention it because of your insurance and a possible problem if a claim should occur.

A combustible shelf or cabinet must be a minimum of 30" above the cooking surface.

 

Thanks!

Yes, I am aware of the violation... Not much else I could do in terms of options. I can't fit a fan in there because the cabinets are a double. For safety purposes, I may put a piece of metal or ceramic shielding there.

-Sam