Shower modification question

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-22-15, 07:26 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Shower modification question

Hi, so I have an existing shower that has tiled walls all the way up, and my wife would like to make it bigger with a bench...I would like an opinion if this could be done without making the shower pan bigger...I was thinking maybe if i just used Redguard on the bench area, that it might work, but not 100% sure. Attached is my exquisite Microsoft Paint drawing, as I am brainstorming at work. The blue line is the existing wall, and the red line is the seat expansion idea, extending maybe a foot and a half out to the right, then a wall up to the top...

Again this is just a brainstorm, and any input would be greatly appreciated... thanks

Attachment 60375
 
Attached Images  
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-22-15, 08:01 AM
czizzi's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
While in theory what you propose works on paper, there is much more that goes into waterproofing a shower than painting on redgard. And the reason it is so important is that the small leak will rot and fester behind he walls until things are beyond salvage. When I do a bench, I bring the pan liner up the wall, over the seat and then partially up the wall behind the seat. I then shingle another membrane on the wall, over the liner and down the front wall of the seat. Then add cement board and a couple of heavy coats of redgard. While you can ask this same question in multiple forums and websites, eventually you will get someone who says yes, but from my perspective one yes will not make it the correct thing to do. This is from someone who has seen enough water damage to know that it is hidden from view. Here is an example of what an improper installation looks like when you remove the tile. There were no visible signs of damage other than outdated tile.

Name:  Rpgers photo 14.jpg
Views: 280
Size:  41.4 KB

This was a stand up shower with an incorrect installation of the pan liner over the curb.
 
  #3  
Old 12-22-15, 10:08 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
wow, thank you for the detailed response...so let me ask you this...is it do-able the way you described with the existing pan liner if i do what you said, and shingle the liner and membrane over the existing one coming up from the floor? or do i have to do the whole pan over with new concrete and new original liner?

i hope that makes sense without a photo, and i might have my terminologies of the shower pan parts wrong

i edited my drawing, below, the green is the new membrane (not liner like drawing says) over the original liner (black line)

Name:  shower 2.jpg
Views: 207
Size:  31.4 KB
 

Last edited by rich7779; 12-22-15 at 10:20 AM. Reason: changed terminolgy of liner to membrane
  #4  
Old 12-22-15, 10:38 AM
czizzi's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
The modification is not just to the bench, but also to the side walls of the shower. It is a complete unit. Do you know how it was constructed? How old it is?

You have 3 walls effected in the shower not just the bench but the extension of the existing walls. THis is a 3 dimensional project, not a line drawing. They need to be built to the same specs as what is there. You then have to add vapor barrier and backer board and marry that backer board to what is existing so that your tiles don't crack out at the seam between them. You will have to remove some tile on the wall and match with something that is still available (which is near impossible). Then you have to remove and existing walls worth of tile, not disturb the pan liner, re-frame in a bench and not have detrimental effects on the existing floor tile or front of the bench tile? At this point, you will realize that it is going to be easier to rebuild the whole shower and do it correctly.
 
  #5  
Old 12-22-15, 10:51 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
i pretty much figured it was going to be a complete redo, i just wasnt sure if you could re-use the existing shower pan assembly when rebuilding the rest of the shower....what has happened is that the one wall had a shelf inside for the soap and whatever, and water has leaked down and was molding and rotting the wood at the base of the front of the shower where it meets the floor. I ripped out the tile that runs under the door and across the curb and it was pretty nasty in there, so i am going to rip that right wall completely and see what it looks like...

its 22 years old, built in 1993.

i will post a real picture in the near future...thank you for your help so far
 
  #6  
Old 12-29-15, 08:34 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
ok so i ripped out the walls and the tile...and here is what it looks like...i think its safe to say the whole thing, pan and cement board on the walls, need to be ripped out and replaced? the wall on the right side at the bottom was all rotten and moldy behind the tile...

there was 2 sheets of green board between the tile and liner...was that right?

so anyway...rip out everything and start fresh is the best way to go, correct?

Name:  IMG_0622.jpg
Views: 182
Size:  42.8 KBName:  IMG_0619.jpg
Views: 172
Size:  38.7 KB
 
  #7  
Old 12-29-15, 02:35 PM
czizzi's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
If you got all the wall tile off that easily and cleanly, then it was never installed correctly in the first place. I stick by my original recommendation to start from new and build it right this time.
 
  #8  
Old 12-29-15, 02:54 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
yes the tile came off pretty easy actually, i probably knocked off the entire 3 walls in 30 minutes...i am not sure that i dare do the pan myself though

thank you again
 
  #9  
Old 12-29-15, 03:48 PM
czizzi's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
Looks like mastic may have been used instead of thinset. I have run into this myself where it takes longer to pick the tiles up off the floor than it did to knock them off the walls. I even posted a video of one shower I did where I held my camera with one hand and took video of tile coming off the wall with a putty knife with the other hand. Feel free to continue asking questions about your new shower on this thread if you would like. If it goes more toward a tile thread, I may move it to the tile forum.
 
  #10  
Old 01-07-16, 12:32 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
Received 0 Votes on 0 Posts
Czizzi...thank you for your help so far...since I have posted last, i had a tile/shower guy point me to the schluter/kerdi shower system, so I think i will go that route...

my question is, and I will assume you are familiar with the schluter...my house is on a concrete slab....when i rip out the existing shower, i assume that the mortar bed is sitting on top of the slab, correct? and to install the Schluter, it doesnt need a mortar bed, it just sits flat on the slab?

i know theres more too it as far as the drain installation goes, as it is probably sticking up higher with the existing shower than it will be with the Schluter...but i'm just trying to picture the Schluter floor by itself for now

Thanks again
 
  #11  
Old 01-07-16, 02:55 PM
czizzi's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Posts: 7,376
Received 9 Votes on 7 Posts
Gonna be honest, I'm a hands on contractor and have not been able to justify the price of any of the shower systems out there. I prefer to build my showers from scratch with a pre-slope an mudbed. At the very least what ever system you use, has to have a slope to the drain. Do not simply lay a membrane on flat concrete.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: