I am looking to put in replacement windows, without removing the frame of my windows. We are currently looking at Marvin TILT-PAC windows. Are these good windows, the TILT-PAC, I mean. I have heard good things about Marvin.
What I have been told, is that you take out the old sash. The TILT-PAC comes snap-in jamb liners and the windows are encased in wood that can be stained to match (hopefully) the wooden frame already in place.

 

Marvin Tilt Pac windows are great. You will love them. Easy to install. I use them weekly.

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Jack the Contractor

 

In response to Jack the contractor who thinks Marvin Tilt Pac windows are great.....I've had a completely different experience.

We purchased Marvin Tilt Pacs to replace 11 windows in our old house. Plus we bought storms for an added layer of protection. Everything was fine until the weather got cold. That's when the fun began.....all the upper panes on the inside of the storm windows fogged over. We've tried everything to alleviate the problem to no avail.

We do not think these windows are energy efficient. Somewhere warm air is getting out to the cold storm window and fogging up.

My husband who has 25 years of carpentry experience put them in and we've had an independent contractor who has put these in for years look at how we did them and he says we did a good job.

Jack, if you have any ideas, I'm all ears

Thanks,
Fogged and Frustrated!

 

Jack will be back after supper. Putting storms on thermopane windows is the very cause of the problems, not the window itself. By installing storms, you created another heat chamber and the heat had no where to go.

 

So Jack, just where is that heat coming from? Inside the house? With the purchase of high efficiency windows that is the problem I was trying to fix. So why should anyone buy new windows?

Fogged

 

Fogged, sunlight, ambient heat from the outside is creating an oven between the storms and the thermopane, so the thermopane is not having a chance to do its job.
I just finished changing out 7 window units for a customer that, although were thermopane, were aged and leaked air around the window sashes, so that is one reason people buy new windows.

 

To get back to the point.......I installed Tilt-pacs way back when it was a new product. From an energy standpoint, I have no regrets, they saved 20-25% on my heating bill. My problem is, they do not TILT in easly, in fact, my wife can't do it. That was about 20 yrs ago. I have not done any Tilt-Pac installations recently, but Marvin makes an excellent product, and I would hope they have improved the tilt problem.

 

Larry,

I appreciate your response. However, the problem mostly happens at night...when the temperature drops, and when the morning sun hits the panes, they begin to clear up, so the 'oven effect' heat is not coming from the sun to cause the problem. This clearing up happens in the morning even when the temperature is still cold. So where's the outside ambient heat you speak of during the day? If it's really cold, they first fog and then frost over only to disappear when it warms up just enough.....sometimes many days later.

This is completely complexing. If I can't solve this problem I will buy some of that plastic window stuff and cover the inside of the window to see if that works....just to find out if the heat is coming from inside the house....but I can't see myself doing that every year!

 

Not sure I understand your problem, is the fogging on the inside or outside, or between the glass panes?? Fogging on inside is usually due to the humidity levels inside the house. But if it only happens on one window, it could be the glass in that window or something about the installation. Marvin will replace the glass(sash) if it is a problem.

 

The Marvin windows are not fogging at all....not on the interior or exterior pane....the only fogging happens on the inside of the storm windows. It happens on all the windows we replaced on the second floor. The two windows on the north side of the house fog less than the other six on the east, south and west sides of the house.

I've had the house checked for high humidity levels with a meter from my furnace man. The readings were taken over the course of a week at different times of the day in all rooms of the house. We took three readings in every room. All readings came in within the "ideal humidity level" range.

 

Ideal humidity levels refer to human needs, not windows. You cleared up the problem with your last post, in that the Marvin panes are working properly, and the added storms are fogging. The cold air hitting the storms and the warm air between the storms and the Marvins that has been there all day harbors humidity, and fogs the storm windows. I will repeat, adding the storms is the problem, not the Marvins. If you feel the storms are giving you added heat retention, you will have to live with the storms fogging.

 

I bought a plastic window kit for the inside and applied it to one window that has a lot of fogging. That night there was no fogging on that window, but was on the other ones without the plastic. So now I know the heat is getting out from the inside. Now I just have to find out where.

 

My guess would be that if you caulked the storm windows on, its aggrivating your problem by trapping warm moist air that bypasses the Marvin windows. The air between the prime window and the storm window needs to have a little venting, and if you caulk the storm window on, it often leads to moisture problems in the space between the 2 windows.

The plastic barrier you installed inside just proves that your tilt-pacs are not completely effective at stopping air that is exiting the home past the windows- either past the sash itself, or behind the jamb packs, which I'm guessing probably only have an open cell foam padding behind them. The plastic is also an effective vapor barrier, something no window alone posesses.

 

Thanks for your input--I appreciate it.

We did not caluk our storms--they are put on with just the screws that came with them.

Earlier today I used rope caulk on another fogging window. I put it along the vinyl jambs that the sash runs up and down on. So far there is no fogging. It's 10:30 p.m. and cold enough for the other untreated windows (no plastic or rope caulk) to fog up.

 

Here is an update about the Marvin Tilt Pac windows. We contacted a company to pressurize our house to find any and all leaks in our home. The Marvin Tilt pacs are leaking at the jamb - mostly where the sashes meet the jamb and at the head where it meets the jamb. We lit an incense stick and put it up to the windows, you can see the smoke sucking straight to outside.

We also have two full-fledged Marvin widows in our kitchen and four in our basement. There was no leaking from these windows what so ever! What better comparison could you have to prove a point?

Contractors who install these windows love them because they are easy to install and they make lots of money doing it. They don't want to hear or believe that these widows leak for that very same reason.

Fogged

 

First of all let me say, that I have no doubt that Fogger did an excellent job installing these tilt pacs. They really are a simple and effective way to upgrade your glass and replace old window sashes. However, I would be curious about the amount of insulation in your void area, or wall cavity, not to mention how tightly the jambliners are pressed against the sides of the sashes. Shimming of the clips would increase this pressure, especially at the check rail, or where the sashes meet. At the headjamb, I would pay particular attention to the way the weatherstrip meets the jamb, is it tight or just slightly touching. A piece of lattice glued in place could help the W/S do its job. As for storm windows, they are generally a "no no" that could result in premature seal failure that could void any warranty claims. I know Marvin used to have a service dept that would go and inspect problems with their products, I've even worked with a one of their service techs a time or two. Did you try to contact Marvin in an attempt to resolve this issue? I'd be curious what they would say.

 

Oh yes, we did have Marvin reps out here, two of them in fact on two different occassions. One told us they were installed just fine but to shim up two of the windows as he didn't think they were tight enough. We did that and lo and behold, it made the fogging worse. The second guy told us that although we were told that the tilt pacs were as efficient as the full-fledged windows, he said he did not agree with that statement. He also said that he would have recommended the full-fledged windows.

The weatherstrip at the head is tight - it's the first thing we noticed and fixed. Our windows are shimmed so tight that the sash does not glide up and down as easily as the full-fledged Marvin windows in our kitchen. We have insulated the void, and stuffed insulation up at the head in both corners.

Fogged

 

An update....

We had an energy audit done. Our full fledged Marvin windows do not leak at all. However, the Marvin Tilt-Pacs do. They leak where the sash meets the jamb liners. Every Tilt-Pac leaks....and that is why they have those little spongy things that you place at the bottom of the jamb liners.

So, for everyone wanting and expecting energy efficient windows, DO NOT get Marvin Tilt-Pacs. And that probably goes for any manufacturer out there making similar windows.

Fogged....

 

Before you make a statement like that, have you contacted Marvin?? They are usually very responsive to problems.

 

I had them installed, in home in New England late 2009. They are terrific. I am trying to determine if they qualify for fed energy tax credit. I have Clad double hung with LowE II w/argon.

Thanks

 

jsmith...this is an old thread.

To answer your question....Rebates and Tax Credits for Windows, Doors, and Skylights : ENERGY STAR You will have to look and see if your windows were Energy Star certified. It changed after Jun 09 and the requirements were even stricter. Just because of what you noted them being...I kind of doubt they qualified. I believe the Energy Star requirements vary by region. Again...you'll have to look at your documentation or contact the manufacturer.