Idiot needs door advice
#1
02-28-04, 09:49 AM
Idiot needs door advice
I'm as "handy" as a dead slug.
I have a couple of doors in a very old farm house that I would like to replace (one bathroom and one bedroom). To my untrained mind the easiest thing would be to buy two doors and simply connect them to the old hinges. However when looking around stores like Home Depot I see that one cannot just buy a replacement door, we have to buy the door and a frame. If I do that , how the heck do I remove the old frame? Do I just bang away until it starts moving? In this old house I'd be afraid of the wall falling down.
Is it possible just to buy replacment doors somewhere, or should I be learning how to do the full job?
Your advice is appreciated.
I have a couple of doors in a very old farm house that I would like to replace (one bathroom and one bedroom). To my untrained mind the easiest thing would be to buy two doors and simply connect them to the old hinges. However when looking around stores like Home Depot I see that one cannot just buy a replacement door, we have to buy the door and a frame. If I do that , how the heck do I remove the old frame? Do I just bang away until it starts moving? In this old house I'd be afraid of the wall falling down.
Is it possible just to buy replacment doors somewhere, or should I be learning how to do the full job?
Your advice is appreciated.
#2
02-28-04, 11:10 AM
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Use the pre-hung doors. To buy what you need for replacements you'll need to know the door sizes and swing. Measure the width of the existing doors and determine the swing (lefthand or righthand) with your back against the hinges.
To remove the old doors, remove the door hinge pins and the doors, and use a straight-shank punch the size of the nails to sink the finish nails, and pry the door trim off with a flatbar.
Then you can dismantle the rest of the door frame the same way to remove them back to the rough framing.
To install the pre-hung doors, you will need a level, carpenter's square, hammer and # 8 finish nails, and beveled wooden shims (strips of beveled smooth cedar shingles work well).
The doors should be hung so that they sweep 1/2" to 5/8" above the finished floor. Use temporary blocks on the floor to raise the frames up before doing any nailing, if necessary.
Starting on the hinge side of the pre-hung door frame, overlap shims from opposite sides behind the hinges. When you get it perfectly plumb and level, nail that side of the frame through the shims (you can saw off the extended shims later).
Work your way across the top next, getting it perfectly square and level and nail it, and then shim opposite the hinges down the other side...getting it perfectly plumb and level before nailing.
lefty can give you more tips, but that will get you started.
Good luck!
Mike
To remove the old doors, remove the door hinge pins and the doors, and use a straight-shank punch the size of the nails to sink the finish nails, and pry the door trim off with a flatbar.
Then you can dismantle the rest of the door frame the same way to remove them back to the rough framing.
To install the pre-hung doors, you will need a level, carpenter's square, hammer and # 8 finish nails, and beveled wooden shims (strips of beveled smooth cedar shingles work well).
The doors should be hung so that they sweep 1/2" to 5/8" above the finished floor. Use temporary blocks on the floor to raise the frames up before doing any nailing, if necessary.
Starting on the hinge side of the pre-hung door frame, overlap shims from opposite sides behind the hinges. When you get it perfectly plumb and level, nail that side of the frame through the shims (you can saw off the extended shims later).
Work your way across the top next, getting it perfectly square and level and nail it, and then shim opposite the hinges down the other side...getting it perfectly plumb and level before nailing.
lefty can give you more tips, but that will get you started.
Good luck!
Mike
#3
02-29-04, 05:19 PM
Sure, i can give you more tips than that, but why all the damned tools??
The 4' level I understand. Check the walls and see how plumb they are, you'll use it to start the installation, then put it away. Mike didn't mention the Sawzall -- got to have that to remove the old door jamb.
After that, I do everything by "eyeball".
Pull the door, remove the casings and the jamb. Set the pre-hung door in place, and start with the hinge side. Get that plumb using the level. Use 3" screws to install the door. You can pull them out to make adjustments as you need to.
Once the jamb side is set, move to the latch side. Close the door and make sure the gap across the top is uniform, and about 1/8". (Move the latch side of the jamb up or down to achieve that, and shim the bottom of the jamb in place.)
With the door closed, use shims to adjust the latch side of the jamb to get an even gap of about 1/8" from top to bottom. Once the jamb is anchored in place, install the casings, on both sides of the door. Nail them in pairs, with one nail in the jamb, and a second nail into the stud of the rough opening. Now nothing can move.
Finally, install the lockset and the strike plate.
Caulk the casings, and you're done, until it's time to paint it!!
The 4' level I understand. Check the walls and see how plumb they are, you'll use it to start the installation, then put it away. Mike didn't mention the Sawzall -- got to have that to remove the old door jamb.
After that, I do everything by "eyeball".
Pull the door, remove the casings and the jamb. Set the pre-hung door in place, and start with the hinge side. Get that plumb using the level. Use 3" screws to install the door. You can pull them out to make adjustments as you need to.
Once the jamb side is set, move to the latch side. Close the door and make sure the gap across the top is uniform, and about 1/8". (Move the latch side of the jamb up or down to achieve that, and shim the bottom of the jamb in place.)
With the door closed, use shims to adjust the latch side of the jamb to get an even gap of about 1/8" from top to bottom. Once the jamb is anchored in place, install the casings, on both sides of the door. Nail them in pairs, with one nail in the jamb, and a second nail into the stud of the rough opening. Now nothing can move.
Finally, install the lockset and the strike plate.
Caulk the casings, and you're done, until it's time to paint it!!
#5
02-29-04, 08:03 PM
Yeah Mike "EYEBALL!!"
The door is (or at least SHOULD BE) sqaure, and, assuming that it's a reasonable well made door, not even a CA earthquke is gonna bother it!! LOL!!
Eyeball, because you are looking at the asthetics -- you want the gap between the door and the jamb to be uniform from top to bottom, and uniform across the top. IF there's a problem with the door and it isn't square (or at least doesn't agree with your framing square), you want to compensate for that.
"Eyeball!"
The door is (or at least SHOULD BE) sqaure, and, assuming that it's a reasonable well made door, not even a CA earthquke is gonna bother it!! LOL!!
Eyeball, because you are looking at the asthetics -- you want the gap between the door and the jamb to be uniform from top to bottom, and uniform across the top. IF there's a problem with the door and it isn't square (or at least doesn't agree with your framing square), you want to compensate for that.
"Eyeball!"
#6
03-02-04, 03:42 PM
Re: Idiot needs door advice
Originally posted by obrienaj
I'm as "handy" as a dead slug.
I have a couple of doors in a very old farm house that I would like to replace (one bathroom and one bedroom). To my untrained mind the easiest thing would be to buy two doors and simply connect them to the old hinges. ****Snipped****
Is it possible just to buy replacment doors somewhere, or should I be learning how to do the full job?
Your advice is appreciated.
I'm as "handy" as a dead slug.
I have a couple of doors in a very old farm house that I would like to replace (one bathroom and one bedroom). To my untrained mind the easiest thing would be to buy two doors and simply connect them to the old hinges. ****Snipped****
Is it possible just to buy replacment doors somewhere, or should I be learning how to do the full job?
Your advice is appreciated.
Then, your only problem is pulling the hinge pins on the existing doors, setting the old door along side the new door {hinge side/edge up & top flush with top}. Practice makes perfect, so if you don't know how to use a chisel, practice on something else. Same with a latchset mortise. Most of the companies or "rental" places also have mortising guages & Latchest hole saws, etc.
Then, match the new hinge mortises with the old [location on the edge, depth, etc.}.
Check to see that they are the same width & height also, because you may be required to cut the new door slabs to fit.
The only problem I would foresee is that if your home is "really" that old, your latchsets are full mortised from the strike edge. Still, these are available for restoration, etc.
If you're in an "old" farmhouse, you can surely at least become as "handy" as the old slug who lived in or built that house. You'd be surprised what YOU can do!
#7
03-03-04, 08:58 AM
patrickhenryhart,
I have no problem with the idea of using a door slab rather than a pre-hung door, except for the amount of time required to mortise the hinges and drill and mortise for the lockset. And those hinge mortises have to be perfect for the door to work properly. For the few extra dollars that a pre-hung door costs (as opposed to a slab), I've never considered it to worth the trouble, unless the door you want doesn't come pre-hung.
A pre-hung door is more forgiving to install, especially if you use screws to install it with. If it's off a bit, you simply pull the screws and readjust the shims until you have it right. Making a mistake on a mortise can turn the new door into a large scrap of wood.
I've installed hundreds of each, and I use pre-hungs anytime I can.
I have no problem with the idea of using a door slab rather than a pre-hung door, except for the amount of time required to mortise the hinges and drill and mortise for the lockset. And those hinge mortises have to be perfect for the door to work properly. For the few extra dollars that a pre-hung door costs (as opposed to a slab), I've never considered it to worth the trouble, unless the door you want doesn't come pre-hung.
A pre-hung door is more forgiving to install, especially if you use screws to install it with. If it's off a bit, you simply pull the screws and readjust the shims until you have it right. Making a mistake on a mortise can turn the new door into a large scrap of wood.
I've installed hundreds of each, and I use pre-hungs anytime I can.
#8
03-03-04, 02:05 PM
Lefty,
No Problem! I also use Pre-hungs, but I also do lots of "Restorations" and "Remodels" where getting a "new" door slab with out having to apply "new" trim, adjacent repair, etc., is a much better option, and less time consuming than tearing out the old door and frame to install the new prehung/prebored unit, etc.
Of course, this all depends on the "owners" desires for the finished product. Personally, if I'm working in a "old" home, I try to match the existing doors, windows, all trim, etc., to the point of even molding trim to match the existing.
I just thought someone should give him the other option, and let him know that "he really can do anything he puts his mind too". Far too many people just don't try. Then again, I wouldn't want them all to do that, because I would be more out of work in this sad economy!
No Problem! I also use Pre-hungs, but I also do lots of "Restorations" and "Remodels" where getting a "new" door slab with out having to apply "new" trim, adjacent repair, etc., is a much better option, and less time consuming than tearing out the old door and frame to install the new prehung/prebored unit, etc.
Of course, this all depends on the "owners" desires for the finished product. Personally, if I'm working in a "old" home, I try to match the existing doors, windows, all trim, etc., to the point of even molding trim to match the existing.
I just thought someone should give him the other option, and let him know that "he really can do anything he puts his mind too". Far too many people just don't try. Then again, I wouldn't want them all to do that, because I would be more out of work in this sad economy!
