has anyone ever installed a "jamsill guard" to solve the problem of sliding patio door leaks. i found an article from the washington post - http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2004May28.html - suggesting a metal sill pan but the product by jamsill - non-metal, adjustable premolded corners - seems a better bet
how long does a professional door person reading this estimate it would take a door person to take out a (peachtree) sliding patio door, install the door sill pan, and reinstall the door? i mean, how many hours of labor are we looking at? i have four of them to deal with and want the leak issue settled so i can safely put in a wood floor. i was told the other day that sliding patio doors, whatever brand, are notorious leakers.

thanks.

 

Gretchen,

No matter how I try to get to the links that you provided, the program locks up. (I'm sure that's a problem on my end, not with your links.)

"i was told the other day that sliding patio doors, whatever brand, are notorious leakers" -- don't know where you heard that from -- a decent slider installed properly is not going to leak. I've installed probably 800 to a 1000, and have never been called back to fix a leak yet.

If you have leaky sliders, my suggestion is to replace them, don't try to patch them to make them quit leaking. And for your own peace of mind, let a pro install a quality slider. Sure, You'll pay for his (or her) labor -- but trust me, that's a whole lot cheaper than water damage!!!

 

Personally I'm thinking who ever installed it in the first place didn't caulk it right. From time to time I use a flashing "jamsill guard " but we break them out of coil stock or if 0.40 is needed ( do to specks ) have it broke.

Like Lefty, I can't count how many doors I've put in and never had a leaker without this flashing because it was caulked right.


Question.... How old are your doors?
Do you have brickmold around them? If so you can check by removing the brickmold and looking down the jamb and stud to see if it was caulked UNDER YOUR SILL AND UP THE JAMBS AT LEAST 1 INCH. Or see that it was only face caulked.

Time.... the first door always takes longer ( thats when you find out whats behind everything and what to do to speed it up ) But I would say round about 2 to 3 hours a door " remove / clean up / caulk / reinstall on an average, and that would be with or without your flashing " it only takes a minute to install flashing.

1 of the biggest problems I've seen is people trying to use paintable caulking to seal a window or door. Problem with MOST paintable caulking is when it dries out and gets a little time and weather it shrinks, Causing leaks.

 

I use Dow-Corning Weatherproof Sealant when installing any window or door. Painter's caulk, acrylic and silicon are out, except, I do use something (usually acrylic) that is paintable to finish the INTERIOR trim.

Glasman2's estimate of "2 to 3 hours" is probably a little optimistic, at least until you start working on #25 or #30. I would guess the first one will take you all day. By the time you get to the 4th one, maybe 4 hours. Getting the old door out, adjusting the rough opening if needed for the new one to go into and getting the exterior sealed PROPERLY isn't all that much. The time involved usually has more to do with finishing the interior side -- it all depends on the door that you are installing. But if your have been leaking, expect to find some water damage that you will have to fix -- that will add to the time we are talking about.

 

LOL if it took me all day to do 1 door, I wouldn't have a job.

1st door would take 4 to 5 hours " getting to know the house " , 2nd door 3 to 3 1/2 , 3rd 2 hours unless there was something really bad that needed to be repaired or was hanging up the door. It doesn't take long to cut out some floor, and reinstall some wood, and not all places may need any flooring removed. There for I don't think I was TO optimistic.

I also use Dow-Corning "795" best stuff in the world in my book for construction grade caulking.

 

glasman2,

That's you and me. If we spent a day on just ONE door, the customer couldn't afford us. But Gretchen has never torn one apart. When she does, it's gonna be Japanese to her -- or is that Greek?? Either way, it's gonna look like French to her, and she won't have a clue.

Gretchen, PLEASE forgive us!! I think glasman2 and I are having a little fun at your expense. Point is that he and I have been here so often that we can pretty much do these things in our sleep. You are about to tear into your FIRST one, and you'll be a bit bewildered about what you see. It's really not rocket science, and by the time you get to the 4th one, you'll be a pro too!!!

 

I don't know where grechen dean lives but here in the big apple the cost to rip out an old door that you are NOT keeping and installing a new door was nearly the price of the door itself. I think I paid $650 for the door and most installers wanted $500 +tax and I get rid of the door. My advice[I didn't really read the whole thread. Find out what is causing the leak and look at other alternatives if any. Remove and replace is the best option but surely the most expensive. The door I was talking about only took me 5 hrs to put in including removal of the old door. The best $100.00 an hour I ever saved. NO LEAKS

 

I was under the impression they wanted to know how long someone that knew what they were doing would take. Not how long it would take them.

If I misunderstood, I'm sorry.... if not you have my answer


Lefty.... wish we could have worked together when I was down there, you seem like a all around good guy, and would be a pleasure working with ya.

 

My reply was intended to point out that IMO estimates for jobs like this are not done by figuring out how long it will take to do the job. It is much more likely that they will have a standard price for a normal install and it goes up from there. As I said in my area [even from the depot] the price to remove old and install a new door was $500.+. It sounded to me that they were not as much interested in how long but more like how much. Some one estimating the job will put down on the estimate Rand R existing patio door $500. Not R&R patio door Time 3.5 HRS material $2.00 Labor $498 dollars for 3hrs or $167 an hr. It seemed unreasonable to me that there ? really had anything to do with time but more like how much they would be paying per hr. I may be wrong but if I didn't care how much I was paying why would I care how much they were making or for that matter how long it took. This all assumes they will be hiring competent workers that can do the job in a workmanlike fashion and reasonably quickly.

I still say get a hose out and find where the leak is and see if it can be stopped with out the added and maybe unnecessary expense of remove and replace.

 

the question was R&R remove and reinstall.

This is 1 reason I asked how old the doors were.
Even if they are old, but in very GOOD shape, I see no reason to replace them. The older the door, the more likely it wasn't caulked right, and to caulk it right, you can't JUST reface caulk it. The problem will just start again down the road.

Quoiting price on labor is impossible on here because where you live determines what the labor cost is. You say $167.00 an hour, here in my part of Washington state it's $50.00 an hour

 

never expected you to give a price on labor,but someone in their area could and they can do the math. Personally I would take the sliding door out remove the stationary door take out the screws and see what is there. if I can lift the frame after removing the shims I would caulk under it. I would check the bottom cormers and see if there was anything suspicious and probably recalk even if I didn't see anything. You are right this is not rocket science. Keep the water out and it can't get in. BTW has anybody who knows what to look for checked these doors out. Are they ALL leaking. Is there a drip cap. What is immediately outside the door, a deck, grass, a walkway. Is it pitched properly. What have you tried to do already. Here is an exerpt from the article and for the moment let's assume that they don't charge by the hour but have a set price which far exeeds their normal hourly rate.

"There is a fail-safe way to fix the problem, but it is intrusive, costly and recommended only after all other methods have failed."

 

thanks so very much for posting a response, lefty. i see what the problem is with the washington post link: it's the "..." in there. i originally googled on "how to fix sliding door leaks" and that was the first site listed. it seems the diy software has a limit for the number of characters in a link. and it puts in an ellipsis once the limit's been reached.

so, please, try google on "how to fix sliding door leaks" or put, "n/articles/A63704" where the "..." is in yesterday's link.

don't know why the jamsill link didn't work. it works when i click on it (in yesterday's post). please try http://www.jamsill.com/ - or google on "jamsill".

i found a wonderfully enlightening discussion later yesterday at - and i hope this link works - http://forums.jlconline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=23754. if it doesn't, i got to it googling on "how to install door sill pan". it's the third web page listed there.

the point that makes sense to me from that lengthy thread is - and i've replaced names with "(blank)":

"Note: we had eight of these (blank) patio French doors installed and every one exposed to rains leaked through these "waterguard" thresholds.... These also leaked when (blank) tested them. ... I am fully aware that the design of these units utilizing the flat sill is the core of this entire problem. ... When our (blank) service technician went back to (a state) for a company meeting and brought up the question of "why the flat sills?" their answer to him was 'all the four sides of the frame are cast from the same die, if we try to change the bottom, it will open up a whole can of worms'. "

so, the flat sill. isn't that the problem, lefty. i searched on "jamsill guard" and found mention in a review of nifty new products that jamsill has redesigned the weep in their sill pan so that it now slopes.

i almost think you're right, lefty - that i should simply replace my four patio doors with quality models - ones that have sloped sills and injection molded or welded bottom corners - or an incorporated sill pan. perhaps you can't name brands but can you direct me to a dependable source who can (in north carolina)? this is all new to me as i never heard of a leaking door before.

it was a flooring installer who used the term, "notorious", and the construction team that maintains the community of townhouses i live in - all of which have four sliding doors, by various manufacturers - that concurred. they have to deal with them and replacing related rotted subflooring, sills and jambs in the community.

 

I am thinking of changing 2 of my patio doors due to water leaks that is going in the track and eventually leaking downward and rotting the wood sills

Is the sill panel on the bottom necessary for new door installs?
or just the flexible flashing is good enough

how about the top flashing?