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many questions about standard window frame sizes- and glass panes- i am so confused

many questions about standard window frame sizes- and glass panes- i am so confused


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Old 03-06-06, 09:56 AM
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many questions about standard window frame sizes- and glass panes- i am so confused

ok i have a house that i am doing several things to- in order to fix it back up so i can rent it out again, one of the things is to replace two existing wood frame windows- each in a bedroom next to each other,

the house was built in 82 and the windows were alread old used ones when they were installed- and also are two different sizes and brands and such


so i want to modify/match the rough openings to be the same- like they should be- and put in brand new standard size vinyl clad double pane double hung
new siding is going to go on the house, as it has none currently, and the gypsum board work that will need to be done will be no big deal for me either,


where i am stuck at is with standard rough frame sizing rules/standards

also the local zoning code calls for the bottom glass pane itself to be at least 34" wide- and at least 24" high- and for the total glass surface area to be at least 5.7 square feet

now how am i supposed to know exactly which new standard size window units will have the bottom glass pane be at least this big ?

and how does rough frame sizing work- in regards to standard replacemnt window units ?

i heard that the advertised size of the window units is the actual overall size of the unit ?

so then i would add the two inches to those to get my rough frame opening size ?

or ?

please explain, because i am way beyond lost on how all this works

this stuff is so complicated

or i am just over looking something ?


thanks i appreciate


fastr68@yahoo.com
 

Last edited by fast68; 03-06-06 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 03-06-06, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by fast68
and how does rough frame sizing work- in regards to standard replacemnt window units ? i heard that the advertised size of the window units is the actual overall size of the unit ?
It's not as complicated as it seems. If you look at the size chart of any window company (either online or on their printed literature) they will typically show the rough opening size and the unit/frame size. They will often show the glass size too. The rough opening is approx. 3/4" bigger than the frame size. Just enough to fit it into the opening and put a bit of insulation around it.

Originally Posted by fast68
the local zoning code calls for the bottom glass pane itself to be at least 34" wide- and at least 24" high- and for the total glass surface area to be at least 5.7 square feet
I don't live in your area but your local zoning code seems unusual. First, a 34 x 24 bottom pane is already 5.666 sq ft all by itself, so a double hung consisting of two of those (a top and bottom) is already over 11.3 sq ft. Why would they have a code for 5.7 sq ft minimum for "total" glass surface when the bottom sash alone can meet that. They should just come out and say 11.3 sq ft minumum if thats what they mean. Oh well. And usually the codes don't mention a minumum size for the glass, but instead state the minimum size for egress, which is the opening size you can crawl out of in case of a fire. You didn't mention anything about egress (opening) size, just glass size.

Originally Posted by fast68
now how am i supposed to know exactly which new standard size window units will have the bottom glass pane be at least this big ?
If you have a glass size requirement of 34 x 24 minimum per sash in a double hung, most manufacturers would offer a 36 x 24 (34 x 24 was common in the 1920s through 1950s and few companies make that as a standard but EVERYONE offers a standard 36 x 24). A 36 x 24 glass size double hung has a frame size of approx. 41" to 41-1/2" wide, and 56" to 57" tall, depending on the manufacturer. So look for something in the neighborhood of 41 x 56 or bigger and you'll be OK. For that matter, if you go to a window supplier you could take a tape measure with you and actually measure the glass itself if you want visual confirmation. The visible glass size of a 36 x 24 pane will look about 35 x 23, an inch smaller, because about 1" of the glass is sunk into the sash.
 
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Old 03-06-06, 12:44 PM
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hi, thanks, well it says egrees, but it also says net clear opening

doesnt that mean the glass pane opening itself?

no ? it sure looks like it on the zoning code paper i have form city hall zoning office,

or does it really mean the whole sash opening ??



maybe i should scan this windows size zoning page i was given by the city hall zoning dept and show you it,


im trying ot do what i can to get the smallest allowable windows in this house, as i am on a small budget and cant afford to be buying any more than i am allowed to install in the house, but it needs done

the only places i am going ot be able to shop for windows is at menards and lowes, as out here in cornfield no where IL there is nothing for anything, unless youre a farmer, i will have to travel a ways to get to these stores so i dont want to have to make a second trip, want to get it right the first time,


so maybe someone here knows of specific vinyl clad replacement double hung window units- at one of these two stores- that would be what i should look for ?

wen you say frame size- do you mean the window unit frame size, or the rough wall opening frame size ?

this is where i am stuck at,

what size is what ? what is the actual size of a window that is advertised as a such and such size ? do you add to that to get your rough frame size ? or?



help


thanks again
 

Last edited by fast68; 03-06-06 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 03-06-06, 12:54 PM
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here try this:

http://pic14.picturetrail.com/VOL515.../132124712.jpg

should take you to the window size zoning requirement page i just scanned and uploaded, hopefully,



thanks
 
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Old 03-06-06, 09:12 PM
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Egress

That makes so much more sense! Window manufacturers list which of their windows meet those codes. Here's two examples:

Pella marks on their size chart which window "meets minimum clear opening of 24" height, 20" width, and 5.7 sq ft." They're available at Lowes and at Pella window outlets.
http://www.pella.com/resources/pdf/Plcdh-s.pdf

Andersen, available at Home Depot and Andersen window outlets, states the same thing at
http://www.andersenwindows.com/UE/Pr...BasicUnits.asp

Other window companies would have similar specs.

Check out those two sites for which windows meet the egress requirements. They also list frame sizes, and rough openings. Enjoy!
 
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Old 03-07-06, 09:56 AM
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ok well thats good then its hard to explain/describe sometimes, or often, especially in RE of things youre just learning about, such as this

so that window code paper i have really does mean the actual entire window pane opening size ? which is turn technically named the egress ?


ive been looking at the pella stuff but i cant see where it lists any rough frame opening sizes,

the anderson sizing illustration im having some trouble understanding how its laid out- how to interpret/use it, hmm

also does neither of the companies have just some normal vinyl clad double hung units anymore ?
what happened to the good ol vinyl clads that were common a few years ago ?
they must not make them anymore ?
im confused ?
i dont know what would be best for vinyl siding but i dont want any with wood in them, and i dont know anything about the aluminum clads, or maybe all windows have wood in them somewhere?

if there was a window dealer around here then i would just go and look and figure it out that way, but there are none out here, so hmm

the two windows i am looking to replace are 49"H x 33 1/2"W
and 56"H x 29 1/2"W

im looking to reduce them down to the smallest allowable size by code, the code in RE of the 5.7sq foot clear opening rule


i appreciate


Randy
 

Last edited by fast68; 03-07-06 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 03-07-06, 01:52 PM
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Answers

Originally Posted by fast68
so that window code paper i have really does mean the actual entire window pane opening size ? which is turn technically named the egress ?
No. It does NOT mean the window pane opening size. It means the sash clear opening size. The opening size that you have to crawl out of in case of an emergency. That is different than the glass size.

Originally Posted by fast68
ive been looking at the pella stuff but i cant see where it lists any rough frame opening sizes
I don't know how you can miss it. I just clicked on the link again to make sure I didn't give you the wrong information. It's a size chart. All it has are sizes on it. It states "frame" and "opening," meaning frame size and opening size.
Originally Posted by fast68
the anderson sizing illustration im having some trouble understanding how its laid out- how to interpret/use it, hmm
I can't help you much there. It already is as plain as can be. It also is a size chart, and states 3 sizes for each window: the unit dimension (frame size), the rough opening (which is slightly larger than the unit dimension), and the visible glass size.

In both size charts, they put a symbol by the ones that meet egress codes.
Originally Posted by fast68
also does neither of the companies have just some normal vinyl clad double hung units anymore ?
what happened to the good ol vinyl clads that were common a few years ago ?
they must not make them anymore ?
Both windows in the above examples are wood on the interior and clad on the interior. That's what you're looking for isn't it? Who said anything about them not being clad? Actually, so many people say vinyl clad when they actually are referring to aluminum clad. Almost every wood window company that has offered clad windows for a minimum of 25+ years has offered aluminum clad - except for Andersen (and the old Weathershields). With aluminum cladding, you could have a clad exterior on the sash, and wood on the interior. With Andersen, they actually clad the frame, but the top and bottom sashes are painted with a super-tough paint, but they technically are not vinyl clad. That way you're still able to get a wood interior on their products. Pretty much every wood window company EXCEPT for Andersen offers aluminum cladding. So vinyl clad double hungs are NOT normal; aluminum clad or polycron painted clad exteriors are the norm. Incidently, "clad" means to cover up, or in this case to cover a wood window with a different low-maintenance material. So I assume you're not talking about pure vinyl windows when you say "vinyl clad."

Originally Posted by fast68
i dont know what would be best for vinyl siding but i dont want any with wood in them, and i dont know anything about the aluminum clads, or maybe all windows have wood in them somewhere?
Yikes. We may be talking about completely different things. CLAD MEANS *WOOD* WINDOWS. With something covering (or "cladding") the exterior. So now it sounds like you do NOT want clad windows. It sounds like you want vinyl windows (not vinyl clad). And no, not all windows have wood in them, just the clad ones.

Originally Posted by fast68
if there was a window dealer around here then i would just go and look and figure it out that way, but there are none out here, so hmm
It's unfortunate that there are no dealers around. I think you need to really look at them since you're having trouble understanding a size chart, the difference between clad and vinyl, terminology, etc. Surely there MUST be a lumber yard or building supply center within reasonable driving distance.
Originally Posted by fast68
the two windows i am looking to replace are 49"H x 33 1/2"W
and 56"H x 29 1/2"W
It gets worse. Your measurements could be the sash opening, rough opening, brickmould size, or masonry opening.
Originally Posted by fast68
im looking to reduce them down to the smallest allowable size by code, the code in RE of the 5.7sq foot clear opening rule
The size charts shown previously will show you what your options are. If you go with a skinny window then it needs to be made taller. If it's a wide window than it can be made shorter. There is no one size I can tell you to get. Whereever you order the windows from should hopefully be able to help you choose correct sizes in relation to their own particular brand.

It sounds like the two size charts mentioned will not be of much help if you're getting vinyl windows though. The size charts were for clad windows, not vinyl windows, from the 2 largest wood window manufacturers in the country. You need to consult the size guide of whatever brand you're getting. I think you really need to talk to someone who can walk you through this in person. Best of luck Randy!
 
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Old 10-07-07, 03:04 PM
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Question A related confusion?

I am working with architect drawings that have window sizes like "3050" on them. In one post here, I saw something that equated this to "3' wide and 5' tall". Is this for real, or was that post in error? If so, what does "3026" mean -- is it 2'6" tall, or 2.6 feet tall, or some other weirdness?

I see doors that are '3068' and I've got to assume they're over six feet -- surely 5'8" would not be legal... Yet when I look at Pella's data books, they show windows like "2525" which have a frame size of 2'1" x 2'1", in other words, 25 inches.

How do I know which one I'm dealing with where?
 
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Old 10-11-07, 08:42 AM
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NYVillager,
This is one those times, it seems, you are right but you're second guessing yourself. On drawings, Yes 3050 means the window is 3' wide and 5' tall. And Yes, on drawings 3068 (pretty standard exterior door) is 3' wide and 6'-8" tall. Const. Docs. that call out a 5'-8" door wouldn't make it past the secretary at the plans examiners office!

anywho, pella uses a different convention. Yes 2525 means 25" wide by 25" tall. As for other window manufacturers, without looking into it, I would only assume that they follow the same convention. However, this is easily confirmed by comparing that number (2525) with the frame size (2'-1"x2'-1") as you mentioned previously.
 
 

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