Improper Mounting of Bay Window Supports


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Old 04-23-06, 05:01 PM
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Improper Mounting of Bay Window Supports

Hello,
Last Summer, I had a "PELLA" bay window installed by Gunton's contractors. "Gunton" is an out of town distributor that does installations in eastern Pennsylvania.
I had issues with part of the installation which included the bay supports, caulking, foam insulation, wall trim and the use of 3-1/2 inch aluminum nails to secure the trim moulding using a power nailer.
(1) Seven lag screws were used to secure the bay supports. This I feel was overkill and all drilled locations were in the brick, instead of in the mortor joints.
(2) The contractors did not check their work as I found gaps in the caulking and foam insulation after removing the trim because it was poor quality and I installed by own stainable trim. This is when I found that they used 3-1/2 nails from their power nailer when actually 1-1/2 would have been sufficient.
On the underside of the bay window, there is a nail that was not driven in properly. He left it in a bent over position.

After I complained, another contractor came out to hide the improperly installed bay window supports by installing aluminum trim over the supports, re-caulking the gaps and he replaced the bent over nail. But I feel ther was damage done to my brick as it has hollow spaces. I won't have to worry about it, but in the future the next contractor to replace this window will curse when he see's the damage to the brick.
The contractors were all out of towners and not familiar with the Philadelphia area and they arrived with insufficient lumber and hardware. I had to go to the hardware store for them and also took a ride with one of the them to show him where the nearest lumber yard was.

So if you learn that the "Gunton Corporation" will be using their contractors, you may want to secure your own contractors.
If you go to my website at http://mysite.verizon.net/vzeqx2eq/ you will see two close up pictures of the support and bent over nail.
I also sent my complaint to the main office of "Pella Corporation" and told them I would never use Guntons contractors ever.
 
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Old 04-24-06, 08:35 PM
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Were the supports provided by Pella? I have never seen bookshelf type supports under a bay window. Most of what I have done either require substantial framing underneath, or a cable system holding it from the soffiting above.
 
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Old 04-25-06, 03:19 AM
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Larry,
Yes, the supports were provided with the delivery of the bay window. But I think it may be a contractor option whether to use the cable system or the supports. I believe the installation required the use of the supports because the cable position on the bay extends beyond anything solid above it to mount the cable lines. The bay extends 13 inches from the brick surface and that may be the reason for the supports. its a 45 degree bay with two double hung windows. A 30 degree bay would extend less.
Twenty years ago, I built the soffit above the bay out of 2 X 4 lumber and even if it were possible to mount the cables to it, I would not want to trust it to hold the weight of the bay.
I was surprised how heavy the regular double hung replacement windows were; so I can only guess how much the bay weighs.

The contractor seemed to know what he was doing as I watched him install the framing for the bay but I did not watch him install the supports. Why he chose to drill into the brick instead of the mortor joints to mount the lag shields is beyond my understanding. The brick has hollow areas in it and some of the lag shields are probally a loose fit.
 
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Old 04-25-06, 09:21 PM
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Some thoughts --

- your home is brick, so the bay was probably ordered with a 10" wall thickness. With that sill, the exterior bracing probably wasn't even necessary. However, that style of brace looks very nice. I've seen some similar ones that are much less attractive. Regardless, you needn't worry about the weight.

- What makes you think they should have drilled into the mortar? Mortar is the weakest part of the wall; if it started crumbling away they'd have had a mess on their hands.

- The bent over nail on the sill muffler is pretty minor (1" aluminum trim nails can be a pain). They'd have had to remove the muffler, cut a new piece of capping in the shape of the window, and remount it. This is underneath the window -- is anyone other than a dog going to notice it?

I'm not defending the contractor per se, but I have to say your complaints seem somewhat nit-picky.
 
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Old 04-26-06, 04:49 AM
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only other thoughts I'd have is that I've never seen a power nailer that shoots 3 1/2" aluminum finish nails. Regarding all the lags, he probably used 7 because of the fact that some of them didn't hold. Cement anchors like he used are practically impossible to get to tighten up "every time", so if 4 out of 7 held well, what more could you ask for? At least they are symetrical.

And cables often are angled back toward the house and attach to the framing- not straight up to framing that is not secure. I never use gussets, I think they're unattractive.
 

Last edited by XSleeper; 04-26-06 at 05:01 AM.
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Old 04-26-06, 01:41 PM
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JPM121,
<What makes you think they should have drilled into the mortar? Mortar is the weakest part of the wall; if it started crumbling away they'd have had a mess on their hands.>

Because my brick has closer spacing between each other. I estimate the spacing to be about 1/4 to 3/8 inch. When the proper size masonary bit is used in the mortor joint for a 3/8 lag sheild, it will cut into the ends of two bricks and when the lag sheild is expanded by the installation of the screw, it will hold tightly and not come loose. If a contractor drills through hollow spaces, he won't get as tight a fit.
When I put out $9000.00 for 5 double hung windows, a bay and a fiberglass door, I expected to get craftsmanship in the installation methods. Doors and windows are supposed to be installed as air tight as possible. Leaving gaps in the caulking and the foam insulation makes that pointless.
 
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Old 04-26-06, 01:46 PM
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XSleeper,
<only other thoughts I'd have is that I've never seen a power nailer that shoots 3 1/2" aluminum finish nails>

I measured one of the nails. It was 3-1/2 inches. Although it did not look like a regular finish nail. It did not have much of a head as a finish nail does.
 
 

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