Pella J-mould question w/ T1-11 siding

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Old 10-04-07, 11:00 AM
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Question Pella J-mould question w/ T1-11 siding

Pella will not respond to email sent to them last week regarding this question (maybe I'm to small a consumer so they're not interested in me? Maybe they don't know how to install their own product?....)

The product in question is the Pella vinyl clad windows with the J-mould built in. The structure I want to install them in has already been built - there are no windows in this structure and the siding is T1-11 with 4" OC siding (garage).

I've used the same product before on another jobsite BEFORE the T1-11 is installed - the windows get mounted directly to the wall stud via the nailing fins and then the T1-11 is slid directly into the J-mould for a nice and functional dry fit.

On the garage with the siding -already- up how do I use the same kind window in this job (I have four to install)? It would appear I have one of 2 choices;

1) Rip down the 4 X 8 sheet and install the nailing fin to the stud (a real pain in the carpenter's belt...).

or....

2) Attach the nailing fin to the T1-11 that's already up; which leaves the J-moulding exposed waiting for something to be slid into it.

I would rather use option #2 - anybody encountered this before? Would I just use some 1 X 4 and rip it to size, caulk it up real good and insert into the J-mould and nail it up? Would that pass the Southern Building Code or would I be required to take an entire panel down and install the nailing fins to the studs underneath the T1-11?....

Hoping you can help....
 
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Old 10-04-07, 12:00 PM
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Option 2 will not let the door or window sit properly and will leave your jamb extension 5/8 to 3/4" short once you apply your interior wall covering. I hate to say it, but to properly install it, you should remove the siding and flush the nailing fin to the studs, reflash the unit and reinstall the siding. Of course if the siding is cut to the size of the opening it will be too narrow to fit into your j channel, so some sort of narrow molding will be in order. Of course you could cut the nailing fin off, slide the units in the opening and do the molding thing, too. Check our your measurements to see if that will be a viable alternative. You will have to secure the units from the jamb side, however.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 01:54 PM
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Hi Chandler!! Thanks for the comments from Young Harris, again. I hope things have been nice and COOL over there!!....it's been dreadful in Rome the past few months!!

H'mmmm.... your alternative to cutting OFF the nailing fins and sliding the window through the existing siding sounds very interesting....

Would you know if these Pella vinyl clad windows would support nailing through the jambs on the inside as with a "standard" all-wood window? I would imagine they're just some sort of cheap lumber / glued sawdust inside wouldn't you? Then I'd just frame out like a standard window, right? It'd sure beat ripping up some drip edge and prying these T1-11 panels off!

Let me know - nice to hear from you again...
Loveoldtrux
 
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Old 10-04-07, 03:30 PM
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It has been rather cool lately here in the Enchanted Valley, but not after a horrible summer! The frames of the Pellas should handle fastening to the casing just fine. I would predrill and use finish screws with a #1 square drive. Drive carefully, and shim as you go to keep them square. Pella, also uses a pretty good clear wood on their jamb extensions. Be sure to caulk well, as you don't have the advantage of the nailing fin to help out. Good to hear from you, too. Look forward to pix of the project.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 03:42 PM
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Not meaning to butt in between you two, but, I'll interject a few thoughts if it helps.

Inserting your fir siding, grooved 4" OC into the j-moulding is a bad idea IMO because any water that gets into the j-moulding would be able to run behind the siding once it reaches the bottom of the window. A huge bead of sealant that would seal up the perimeter of the j-moulding *would* help keep water out, but only until the caulking fails or the siding erodes.

It sounds like your garage has no plywood sheathing- the siding is acting as the sheathing and there's probably no building paper at all. So right there it makes it hard to meet any type of installation codes, since windows are supposed to be incorporated into the weather resistive barrier.

I wouldn't relish the thought of removing all that siding only to install it on the studs, with no building paper. Me thinks "what good is that?"

So i'd say that at this point your best solution would be to install the windows on top of the siding, seal behind the nailing fins with sealant, (especially fill up the 4" OC grooves) then apply a 5/4 trim board (1 1/8" thick) that would project PAST the j-mould, so that you could then caulk the perimeter of the window where the trim juts out past the j-moulding.

A drip cap over the top of the trim would be a good idea, but at the least you'd want to caulk the outside edge of the trim to the siding again.

Additionally, I don't know much about these Pella vinyl windows (are they Thermastar?) , other than Pella does not make them... but it's basically a glorified replacement window with an integrated j-channel and nailing fin. I don't believe it has it's own jamb unless it's the kind that snaps into a groove in the window. If that's the case, you'd shim the jamb and nail through the jamb as you normally would, after the window has been installed from the outside. You would not nail at all through the vinyl window itself. If it's the vinyl window I'm thinking of, they aren't on the same par as Pella's wood window line.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 05:50 PM
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No problem. Just "old home week" in North Georgia. We are all neighbors. I agree. I wasn't thinking of the sheathing when I made my comment. What do you think of brick mold to go around the j channel once they are installed? Might make it look like a regular window install.
 
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Old 10-04-07, 08:07 PM
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Good idea, Chandler. A 2" wide #908 brickmould is 1" thick on the edge that would be next to his j-moulding, and it would probably be just thick enough to provide an edge to caulk where it meets the j-moulding. If price were no object, I'd pick Azek brickmould. It's nice stuff! Those 17' long pieces are kinda bendy though.
 
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Old 10-05-07, 03:40 AM
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I know. Why wouldn't 9' pieces do just as good. Combine them, and you can cover just about any door/window combination around. But 17'? My dovetail isn't but 14' long, and I hate taking it to the store just to get molding.
 
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Old 10-05-07, 04:04 AM
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Thanks for the get-backs, Chandler & XSleeper - yes, the 1" brickmould is what I was thinking of, but as Chandler pointed out ~ if I mount the nailing fin onto the T1-11 then it'll be a REALLY big pain to finish out the inside of the window.

I have to make a parts run to Lowes today - I'll see if they would take these two windows back via the returns desk - they're Special Order windows but the packaging is still on them. Then I'd order four "standard" windows - the kind I'm used to working with.

Here's some pix for you, Chandler & XSleeper..

http://us.mistynewbeak.biz/html/walls.html
 
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Old 10-05-07, 04:20 AM
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It may not, since XSleeper mentioned there is no sheathing on the sides. The T1-11 technically becomes your jamb extension spacer. Measure the width of the wall including the T1-11 and include an additional 1/2" for sheetrock and see what the depth of the window with extension is. If it is 4 5/8", and the window has a 4 9/16 extension, it will fit without modification. Only the brick mold on the outside and sealing.
 
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Old 10-05-07, 12:12 PM
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no help from Pella -UPDATE-

Thanks for all YOUR help, though.... guys.

Update: I went to Lowes this morning and they will take these nailing fin windows back and give a refund this Saturday.

I now have the no-nailing-fin windows on order as their replacements. The replacements have no brickmould, they just slide in the rough opening. Once slid in, screw the jam, shim it & caulk it and install the white pvc vinyl brick moulding on the outside and the job is done. End of story, I guess.....

Y'all have a nice weekend, y'hear?.... I'm outta here till Monday.....

Loveoldtrux
 
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