french door
#1
03-28-08, 03:52 PM
french door
i have a french or should i say faux french exterior door (looks like 2 doors but onlythe one operates)i dont know how much info is needed so heres everything.......facing door from outside it is the right side door lockset is on the rigth side of this door and hinges are on the left which is the center support of the door unit ive checked the framing its all square and the frame is also level how ever the door itself is not level from the hinge side to the lockside it is about 1/4 of an inch low.....so what do i do to level the door ?
#2
03-28-08, 04:53 PM
Group Moderator
Well I have to say I read your description several times and am still a little confused by it. But I think I understand it now.
If the operating door has a gap on top that gets larger on top as you go toward the latch side, it's likely that the door may need a shim under the center jamb (the hinge side). It could also be that the entire frame is out of square, which would mean the jambs aren't as level as you think they are. If you're using a 4' level, I would just guess that's the case. 78" levels work a lot better for giving you an accurate reading across all 3 hinges at the same time, and help ensure the jambs are truly straight.
It could be that the threshold is bowed down in the middle so if you can sight down the sill or threshold, (might be easier to sight across the top of the jamb- hopefully the jamb itself will be straight across the tops of both doors) you might be able to determine if that's the case. If it isn't straight, shim the bottom of the door up until it is... if it IS straight, the entire door frame likely needs to be racked (top would need to go away from the latch side / bottom would need to go toward the latch side) in order to square the door, plumb the sides, which will raise the latch side of the door.
So that's my suggestion for starters. If we can be of more help, let us know.
If the operating door has a gap on top that gets larger on top as you go toward the latch side, it's likely that the door may need a shim under the center jamb (the hinge side). It could also be that the entire frame is out of square, which would mean the jambs aren't as level as you think they are. If you're using a 4' level, I would just guess that's the case. 78" levels work a lot better for giving you an accurate reading across all 3 hinges at the same time, and help ensure the jambs are truly straight.
It could be that the threshold is bowed down in the middle so if you can sight down the sill or threshold, (might be easier to sight across the top of the jamb- hopefully the jamb itself will be straight across the tops of both doors) you might be able to determine if that's the case. If it isn't straight, shim the bottom of the door up until it is... if it IS straight, the entire door frame likely needs to be racked (top would need to go away from the latch side / bottom would need to go toward the latch side) in order to square the door, plumb the sides, which will raise the latch side of the door.
So that's my suggestion for starters. If we can be of more help, let us know.
Last edited by XSleeper; 03-28-08 at 05:13 PM.
#3
03-28-08, 06:04 PM
i used a 6 foot level and the door seems to lean away from the hinge side towards the latch about an 1/8 to 1/4 the other door panel doesnt operate its factory sealed like a big window made to look like the other door i also checked to see if the whole thing is racked but its not it just seemes like the door is sagging away from the hingesand sorry about the post i know it was long winded and not clear but i have a head cold and not thinking clearly thanx for the advice
#4
03-28-08, 06:17 PM
Group Moderator
Doors that are mounted to the center mullion commonly have problems with sagging, since the hinges are in the middle of the door, there is no way to secure the hinges to the studs. Often, what is happening is that the center mullion is bowing slightly toward the latch side... more so at the top than anywhere else.
The best solution to your problem is to forget about what your level reads and determine one of two things.
1). Should you shim the bottom of the door to straighten out the reveal along the top of the door? As I mentioned, you would likely need an additional shim under the center mullion of the door, which will raise the top latch side of the operating door.
2). Forget about plumb and rack the door frame slightly by adding additional shims around the frame to compensate for the sag. (rack the top latch side of the frame in the direction of the hinge side and insert shims between the rough opening and the jamb to keep it there / rack the bottom stationary side in the direction of the latch side and again insert shims between the rough opening and the jamb) The perimeter ought to be shimmed already, if so this will mean you will have to remove those shims, rack the door until it appears square, then reinstall the rest of the shims. If nothing will move because- as you mentioned- the fixed unit is factory sealed, then your only choice is option 1 which might mean raising and shimming underneath the door and threshold on the fixed side only. If your door has a nailing flange, all fasteners would obviously need to be removed in order to do any of this.
Unless you like a sagging door, you will have to forget about "plumb and level" and do one of these 2 things. You do not usually want to get into the third option - messing with shimming behind the hinges because that will change the clearance between the door and the jamb as it closes, which will open up a whole new can of worms.
The best solution to your problem is to forget about what your level reads and determine one of two things.
1). Should you shim the bottom of the door to straighten out the reveal along the top of the door? As I mentioned, you would likely need an additional shim under the center mullion of the door, which will raise the top latch side of the operating door.
2). Forget about plumb and rack the door frame slightly by adding additional shims around the frame to compensate for the sag. (rack the top latch side of the frame in the direction of the hinge side and insert shims between the rough opening and the jamb to keep it there / rack the bottom stationary side in the direction of the latch side and again insert shims between the rough opening and the jamb) The perimeter ought to be shimmed already, if so this will mean you will have to remove those shims, rack the door until it appears square, then reinstall the rest of the shims. If nothing will move because- as you mentioned- the fixed unit is factory sealed, then your only choice is option 1 which might mean raising and shimming underneath the door and threshold on the fixed side only. If your door has a nailing flange, all fasteners would obviously need to be removed in order to do any of this.
Unless you like a sagging door, you will have to forget about "plumb and level" and do one of these 2 things. You do not usually want to get into the third option - messing with shimming behind the hinges because that will change the clearance between the door and the jamb as it closes, which will open up a whole new can of worms.
#5
03-29-08, 08:13 AM
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Kinda sounds like a normal french door with the latch in the middle and of course the door is sagging from the top hinge. If so I would install some 2 inch screws at the top hinge to pull it back up.
