Condensation between glass in windows
#1
04-25-08, 04:05 AM
Condensation between glass in windows
MW windows installed in 1994. A few of the windows have condensation beginning to form between the glass. Had a representative from a local building supply to come over yesterday and he told me that
1. I could have just the glass replaced or
2. Have a new sash installed.
He said that I could have new windows installed but it would cost a mint as all molding would have to be replaced.
He also told me that I could only replace with MW windows. From what I have read MW windows are not the best Is this true? If it is factual, could you please give advice on the better windows or links as this would be a huge investment.
As this is such a huge investment, will the cost be justified? Will the windows eventually have to be replaced as the condensation will continue to get worse? Will the energy savings outweigh the cost of the windows?
I live in NC.
If glass/sash is replaced, what numbers are important? These windows face due south so I would like energy savings in the summer but allow sun to penetrate in the winter. Is this possible?
Thanks again for all your wonderful advice. Jen
1. I could have just the glass replaced or
2. Have a new sash installed.
He said that I could have new windows installed but it would cost a mint as all molding would have to be replaced.
He also told me that I could only replace with MW windows. From what I have read MW windows are not the best Is this true? If it is factual, could you please give advice on the better windows or links as this would be a huge investment.
As this is such a huge investment, will the cost be justified? Will the windows eventually have to be replaced as the condensation will continue to get worse? Will the energy savings outweigh the cost of the windows?
I live in NC.
If glass/sash is replaced, what numbers are important? These windows face due south so I would like energy savings in the summer but allow sun to penetrate in the winter. Is this possible?
Thanks again for all your wonderful advice. Jen
#2
04-25-08, 04:23 AM
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Good morning, Jen.
I would get at least two more companies to talk to you about replacement. Your windows are 14 years old, which, while on the low end of duration, it's possible they may need replaced.
There are too many companies and too many variables to give you a definitive answer. You'll need to do some homework to help you decide. Search for Consumer reports on brands like Pella, Marvin and Andersen.
You may also find a recent discussion we had in the General Chat Forum about selecting a contractor. http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=342564
I would just replace the glass, if the sashes are in good condition and are air and water tight.
Connie
I would get at least two more companies to talk to you about replacement. Your windows are 14 years old, which, while on the low end of duration, it's possible they may need replaced.
There are too many companies and too many variables to give you a definitive answer. You'll need to do some homework to help you decide. Search for Consumer reports on brands like Pella, Marvin and Andersen.
You may also find a recent discussion we had in the General Chat Forum about selecting a contractor. http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=342564
I would just replace the glass, if the sashes are in good condition and are air and water tight.
Connie
#3
04-25-08, 04:45 AM
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Mamajenn:
The moisture is forming because the insulation seal between the two panes of glass has failed. You may have a warranty issue here, even after 14 years
The person you originally talked to probably suggested MW windows because that's what's there now. Windows of the same nominal size often require different rough openings.
Crossing to another brand could easily involve reworking the rough opening with the attendant probles with headers, trim, etc.
We sell MW windows, and while they are not considered "top of the line" they are a good window. Your simplest route will be to replace the entire sash. I think you'll find it a quicker and easier alternative, as well as more economical.
The moisture is forming because the insulation seal between the two panes of glass has failed. You may have a warranty issue here, even after 14 years
The person you originally talked to probably suggested MW windows because that's what's there now. Windows of the same nominal size often require different rough openings.
Crossing to another brand could easily involve reworking the rough opening with the attendant probles with headers, trim, etc.
We sell MW windows, and while they are not considered "top of the line" they are a good window. Your simplest route will be to replace the entire sash. I think you'll find it a quicker and easier alternative, as well as more economical.
Last edited by George; 04-25-08 at 06:12 AM.
#4
04-25-08, 07:05 AM
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MamaJenn,
If the wood of the sashes and frame themselves are in good shape. re-glazing might be a good option. I had to replace 3 windows in my house in VA due to rot in the sill and sideframes. I was able to use Jeld-Wen wood windows as exact replacements. Even able to re-use the interior trim afterwords. You can get the actual frame sizes and recommended rough openings right off the box, or I believe at the website.
Those are sold at the Big Orange Box, if you don't have MW readily available to you.
A hint, prime and caulk all the areas of the windows that will be inaccessible after install (back of brickmold, jambs, etc), It'll give you one little extra bit of protection from moisture intrusion.
If the wood of the sashes and frame themselves are in good shape. re-glazing might be a good option. I had to replace 3 windows in my house in VA due to rot in the sill and sideframes. I was able to use Jeld-Wen wood windows as exact replacements. Even able to re-use the interior trim afterwords. You can get the actual frame sizes and recommended rough openings right off the box, or I believe at the website.
Those are sold at the Big Orange Box, if you don't have MW readily available to you.
A hint, prime and caulk all the areas of the windows that will be inaccessible after install (back of brickmold, jambs, etc), It'll give you one little extra bit of protection from moisture intrusion.
#5
04-25-08, 10:37 AM
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One thing to keep in mind is that on a typical "double pane" window a blown seal is primarily an aesthetic rather than a thermal performance issue.
I of course report them at my inspections, but if my client can't get a credit form the seller, or has to give up a credit on an item with greater performance implications, as long as they don't much mind the imperfect or obstructed view there are usually IMO better ways for my clients to spend their money than replacing such windows wholesale.
I of course report them at my inspections, but if my client can't get a credit form the seller, or has to give up a credit on an item with greater performance implications, as long as they don't much mind the imperfect or obstructed view there are usually IMO better ways for my clients to spend their money than replacing such windows wholesale.
#6
04-25-08, 11:29 AM
It may not affect the performance - but it sure is ugly....
Having "been there, done that" - the last thing I would suggest is replacing the glass alone. That, in my experience, has cost as much as replacing the whole sash - with twice the work involved.
Time to do some comparison shopping... replacement windows (vinyl) are relatively inexpensive and easy to install. You use all the old window trim (unless you just destroy it during removal of the old windows) - the new ones pretty much slip into place (you do need "some" DIY carpentry skills)... and the old trim goes right back on (yes, you'll need to touch it up and repaint it. But, for an avid DIY'er - you can replace a typical double hung vinyl window for less than $175 these days...
While it might be a PITA - if you can document the original install date - and follow up with the manufacturer - their warranty might/should cover a replacement sash. Fourteen years is, as mentioned, at the low end of a typical warranty period for the sealed panes.....
Having "been there, done that" - the last thing I would suggest is replacing the glass alone. That, in my experience, has cost as much as replacing the whole sash - with twice the work involved.
Time to do some comparison shopping... replacement windows (vinyl) are relatively inexpensive and easy to install. You use all the old window trim (unless you just destroy it during removal of the old windows) - the new ones pretty much slip into place (you do need "some" DIY carpentry skills)... and the old trim goes right back on (yes, you'll need to touch it up and repaint it. But, for an avid DIY'er - you can replace a typical double hung vinyl window for less than $175 these days...
While it might be a PITA - if you can document the original install date - and follow up with the manufacturer - their warranty might/should cover a replacement sash. Fourteen years is, as mentioned, at the low end of a typical warranty period for the sealed panes.....
#7
04-25-08, 04:44 PM
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Unless I am mistaken, Jen will not be doing this work herself.
(Tell me if I am wrong, Jen.)
So, it may be less expensive for her to have just the glass replaced. Installation for windows has a very wide range, so I suggest she price different windows as well as different contractors.
Connie
(Tell me if I am wrong, Jen.)
So, it may be less expensive for her to have just the glass replaced. Installation for windows has a very wide range, so I suggest she price different windows as well as different contractors.
Connie
#8
04-25-08, 05:22 PM
Member
The zseter's advice is always right on. I have a sliding glass door at my mountain cabin. A few years back, my neighbors called and said the snow was up to the rail on my deck. That's 3' or so. The next day my neighbor called to report that all the snow slid off the roof and now the snow on the deck was to the top of the sliding glass door. (That's due to other issues that I can not address monetarily, although I know the answer.)
I only get there when the weather is good and time allows. When I arrived in the spring after the big snowfall, the panes in the sliding glass door had fogged. Old seals from the 80's and thermal shock. No money to replace.
In addition, a neighbor's goats escaped and got in a duel in front of the screen on the door. The screen was destroyed. Now when I visit, I can't open the door because of the bugs.
If I had the money to replace, I'd certainly replace the door with a new unit . New doors are more energy efficient and so are the panes. To replace the glass is like throwing good money after bad.
Do your homework. Shop around. Compare apples to apples. Compare warranties. If you plan on living there for endless years, go for a high quality replacement. If you are planning selling within the next 3-5, you may want to opt for lesser quality. Savvy home buyers want to know what improvements have been made and they want to see warranties. So, keep this in mind.
I only get there when the weather is good and time allows. When I arrived in the spring after the big snowfall, the panes in the sliding glass door had fogged. Old seals from the 80's and thermal shock. No money to replace.
In addition, a neighbor's goats escaped and got in a duel in front of the screen on the door. The screen was destroyed. Now when I visit, I can't open the door because of the bugs.
If I had the money to replace, I'd certainly replace the door with a new unit . New doors are more energy efficient and so are the panes. To replace the glass is like throwing good money after bad.
Do your homework. Shop around. Compare apples to apples. Compare warranties. If you plan on living there for endless years, go for a high quality replacement. If you are planning selling within the next 3-5, you may want to opt for lesser quality. Savvy home buyers want to know what improvements have been made and they want to see warranties. So, keep this in mind.
#9
04-26-08, 07:09 AM
From Jen Window condensation
Connie, you are correct that my husband nor I will be doing the work.
Will other brand windows fit in the opening without having to tear out all the molding?
When we added onto the home at the farm 10 years ago, they did not make our windows so we replaced 39 windows with vinyl tilt ins. These windows slid in without any of the molding coming down. Am I correct to assume that if I want to replace the window without having to tear out very wide molding, then I cannot use Andersen, Marvin or Pella, I will have to use a replacement window company. You may ask, why not use the gentleman that did the work 10 years ago at the farm, well he is 10 years older and not working anymore.
Thanks for all your time and your expert advise. It is wonderful to be able to come and ask questions, receive great advice prior to purchasing an item. Thanks again.
Remember to vote. Jen
Will other brand windows fit in the opening without having to tear out all the molding?
When we added onto the home at the farm 10 years ago, they did not make our windows so we replaced 39 windows with vinyl tilt ins. These windows slid in without any of the molding coming down. Am I correct to assume that if I want to replace the window without having to tear out very wide molding, then I cannot use Andersen, Marvin or Pella, I will have to use a replacement window company. You may ask, why not use the gentleman that did the work 10 years ago at the farm, well he is 10 years older and not working anymore.
Thanks for all your time and your expert advise. It is wonderful to be able to come and ask questions, receive great advice prior to purchasing an item. Thanks again.
Remember to vote. Jen
